Concerns surrounding In-Laws watching my Kids

[SagAStar]

This is a long story but I'll try and keep it as brief as I can.

My BIL and SIL were accused of harming their child at 1 and 2 months old respectively. Neither were convicted as both covered for one another and Wife's parents also omitted to raise concerns about how they were coping as parents.

The injuries were extensive in several broken ribs over 2 occasions within the first few months of the child's life.

The child was placed with my in laws for the best part of two years.

In between times, my Wife gave birth to our first child.

Regretfully, my Wifes parents offered us very little support as new parents.

I took a decision that I did not want my child to be around my BIL and SIL as I believe they are guilty and one is covering for the other. I have strong suspicions who did it but I wont go into that as it's not relevant.

My wifes parents took issue with this and basically cut off contact with my wife and child for 18 months.

In between times I learned that my Wifes parents were breaching Police and Social Work orders and handing back the child to the alleged abusers behind social works back. It was very meticulously planned so that he was handed back at 5pm on a Friday and then dropped back off at 8am on a Monday morning before Social Services started.

As a result, I resported this to Social Work.

My wifes parents showed no interest in trying to resolve matters with my wife and basically just threw my wife and daughter to the side like the were a piece of meat.

They refused to attend a mediation and only eventually showed any interest in resolution with my wife when they found out she was pregnant with out second child.

My in laws persistently state that I am the one preventing everyone playing happy families and that I am the bad one for reporting them to social work.

My Wife wants to have a relationship with her parents which I have no issue with but I have strong concerns about how much of a relationship they should have with my kids because:

They risk their grand child's safety by handing him back to the alleged abusers
They showed very little interest in my child for the first 6 months of her life and cut of all contact thereafter for 18 months subsequently
They have a long history of cutting people out when they dont get their own way. They pretended I didnt exist to my wife for 5 years because they felt I wasnt good enough for my wife (been together 17 years)
They also cut out my SIL's first bf for 3 years as they didnt think he was good enough for her. They didnt like the way he spoke and it wasnt until he got a degree where they started to like him
I have no trust or respect for them and I believe, using a figure of speech, that they would use their children and grandchildren as a shield to save their own life from a bullet...very very selfish people
I believe they would introduce my kids to one or both of the alleged abusers the second I turn my back
They are not the type of people i would ever deem as suitable role models as parents or grandparents
I feel that their actions simply dont deserve them to have a close relationship with my kids.
Being a Grandparent should be a gift and you cant pick and chose when you want to be a parent or a grandparent. This is what they have done
I worry it would be terrible for my kids to get to know them only for them to disappear when they dont get their own way.
They went to extensive lengths to cover up the abuse and are now minimising the injuries.

They are emotionally abusive to my wife in that they obviously treat her as 2nd best child and have done for years. They are manipulative and regularly attempt to control my wife and make her feel bad about not supporting her sister through such a "traumatic" time...absolutely no concerns for their wee grandchild that had their ribs crushed by their SIL or Daughter.

My kids are my world and I feel very strongly that my kids should just have a sporadic and arms length relationship with my in laws. This means that they only see them with my with every now and then and in no certain terms do I think they should be allowed to watch the kids alone for the above reasons.

My wife is now trying to say I'm being excessive whereas I think shes back under their control again and back to trying to please them.

Their ideal situation would be that I am the outcast in the family and everyone else plays happy families and pretents the last 3 years didnt happen....

I cant help but think this is a terrible environment and family for my kids to be a part of and I feel my kids deserve better than they 4 vile beings anywhere near them.

As a compromise, I suggested my kids see their grandparents sporadically and always in supervision to eliminate risk and my aforementioned fears of their previous actions

In no way will they ever be anywhere near the abusers.

They have no regrets or remorse for their behaviour and always look to blame others....bad police, bad social work, bad me etc.

Looking for a bit of advice on whether I am being over the top?

LellyMcKelly*

"I think there are two sides to every story."
Why bother commenting? That isn't answering the OP's question or even remotely helpful.

There are always always two sides to a story but I can't see that you comment to that effect on other threads. Why is that?

I wouldn't allow any visit whatsoever! supervised or not. unless i was there to make sure the abuse and mind games weren't happening

The side where it's ok to break a baby 's ribs, twice @LellyMcKelly? Now that's a side I'd love to hear.

@Goldiegorilla

"You are very strong minded in your language and come across as sanctimonious"
I don't think the OP comes across as sanctimoniousand there is nothing wrong with being strong-minded.

He is not making a show of being morally superior. He is stating facts and, let's face it, he is morally superior to his SIL, BIL and PIL.

He's determined to protect his children from members of his wife's family who physically abused their child.

He reported his PIL to Social Services and may have saved his niece/nephew from further harm. We need more people to have the courage to report safeguarding issues to Social Services and protect children so that we don't ever have to read again about children like Baby P or Victoria.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to reply regardless of what your view is.

I had an idea that the majority would suggest either limited supervised access or no access at all.

I would much rather we never seen any of them again but I also have to consider my wifes own mental wellbeing.

I am wholly aware that my In Laws pose no physical risk to our kids but I do believe they pose a mental risk and as someone rightly says, their hatred for me means that my feelings over whether my kids should see the alleged abusers would not even cross their mind in their quest to get my kids to see their auntie.

Just how easily my wife has accepted them back into her life leads me to believe that she is very much under their control. I've had to listen to her saying things like "her life is over" because her sister isn't in her life. Not so much recently but she has also indicated she wished she was dead. For me, that represents someone who's been mentally controlled over the years into thinking the world revolves around her parents and sister. Having two beautiful children should mean that everyone else including myself, becomes less important so why she indicated her life was over I find extremely hurtful because as lo g as she has her kids, life is very much just beginning.

I think shes messaging them every few days and sending regular pictures of the kids and very much pretending like her family's actions didnt happen.

I think someone is also right to highlight that if I was to suggest that my wife contacts her sister and suggests they meet up with the kids she would absolutely bite my hand off.

I also believe that if I hadn't stepped in when all the bad stuff started to happen then we would all be playing happy families.

Her parents and bil and sister have no friends, theirextended family have virtually nothing to do with them and that was before any of this happened.

Her parents state that me saying my kids dont see the alleged abusers is extremely controlling behaviour. I believe its safeguarding my children. The best way to reduce risk is by eliminating it.

My report to social services came too late in the day. I spoke to an old friend that had been through something similar and they stated that it took a monumental effort fromhus family together a conviction for the beast that harmed their niece. He is no in jail. The problem i had was the parents and my in laws were so determined to cover this up it would have been next to impossible to secure a conviction.

My nephew was removed from them for 2 years but hes back with them now and I can only hope hes safe but i have now had to let all of the go and focus on my children as my wife and I are still add odds over this and idont know how to fix it

Apologies for the spelling, I was in a bit of a rush to go a kids class so a lot of typos in the last post

I think there are two sides to every story.

Oh sure, I expect the in-laws' child was the villain of the piece, & SS just took the child's side & removed him from his parents for 2 years for spite ...

What other side could there possibly be to that scenario?
Would YOU expose your child to unsupervised contact with adults like that, @LellyMcKelly?

In your situation I don’t think I’d be happy for the children to have any contact; they didn’t protect their grandchildren so why would they protect yours and they are emotionally abusive which your children will be exposed to and possibly be a victim of.
I feel for your wife as I know how strong the ties to family are and if she wants to continue the relationship with them then that’s her choice but I wouldn’t be letting the children be any part of that.

LellyMckelly Are you drunk?

Yanbu.
It sounds like your wife perhaps needs some therapy. Would she be amenable to that?
I personally would not allow contact or if forced very supervised contact only.

I wouldn’t want my children near any of them. Can you try to encourage your wife to seek counselling? She sounds like she would benefit from it for her own wellbeing and having someone outside of the family situation to talk to might help her get some perspective on things.

Her parents state that me saying my kids dont see the alleged abusers is extremely controlling behaviour.

This is the crux, isn't it @SagAStar?
Also the most worrying & difficult aspect to deal with.
PiL's clearly have no shame & are enabling the people who abused their grandchild to cover up - & this attitude has permeated their entire relationship with your wife.

Until she can see this for herself, the issue is going to rumble on & on. It sounds like she isn't aware of how badly dysfunctional her relatives are. Do you feel you will be able to gently motivate her to start assessing her family situation anew? - she sounds depressed (the awful comments about life not being viable without sister, etc) - could you suggest counselling for that?
If she can begin talking with a good counsellor about her current feelings, it would not be long until the reason for them is uncovered, alongside the discovery that her "happy family" is not happy or normal at all.
In the meantime, the toxic paretns/in-laws suggestion above is a good one. You are going to need all your tact & strength to help your wife start to see that she can make her OWN family, her own morality about how that family functions, & begin to realise that you & her daughter are the family members who need her prime focus & attention.

It's a tough job when people are still in the grip of FOG - if you are not aware of that acronym, you might find this link enlightening - outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

Good luck, & stick to your guns. You have done exactly the right thing by your daughter & nephew. I hope your wife can soon start to see that, & believe that she, AND her little family, doesn't need validation from her ghastly parents, sister & BiL.

SS don't just take a child from their home for the sake of it. They are removed if they are seen to be in immediate danger!
I think your wife has to speak to a professional especially as she has expressed that she wishes she were dead.
My only advice would be to seek legal advice in terms of them seeing your kids. I am totally on the side that the kids should be as far from them as possible as their mental and physical health is priority however as your wife is not on board with this it may have to be a case of them only seeing the kids under strict supervision!
Her family clearly like to play the victim regardless of how wrong they are.
First step would be to get your wife help then deal with the situation regarding contact.

I imagine this is also a lot for you to take on so please remember to look after yourself too.

One of the reasons I suggested a sporadic relationship with her parents was because she kept saying she wishes she could just share her children with her parents.

Her parents assured us that they just wanted to see my wife and the girls every now and then but then within months they started the emotional guilt trips at my wife with how hurt her sister is that she doesn't see her and about how it would be nice for our girls to go to our nephews birthday party. Then the messages from her sister start despite being told by my wife not to contact her. They are saying things like asking to meet up. Photos of our nephew and MIL bowling saying how it would be nice if she could be there and then at birthdays, my FIL says to my wife that it would have been nice if she could have come with the kids.

Small stuff but each message and comment just does a little more damage to her.

I probably need some counselling as well as this whole situation has damaged me. I was expected to cover up and go along with what they were doing.

I have to say that I have never ever come across people as manipulative and controlling as my MIL and SIL. I've even been manipulated by my MIL momentarily a few years back near the start of this thing.

I'm ashamed to be a part of their family even just in writing and I dont want my kids around people like them. They have pretty much ruined my Marriage which will have a knock on effect with my kids.

I even offered for my BIL and SIL to sit a lie detector test and offered to pay for it (in the knowledge they wouldn't do it) and sure enough, 30 months on, neither have sat it yet still they continue to harass my wife.

I genuinely dont know what to do. I suggested mediation with her parents last summer but no, they didnt want to because they know exactly what people will think of them. The 4 if them make me feel so sick and angry at what they have done to my nephew and my wife. Fortunately, my kids are too young to understand what's went on but they are also victims of being rejected by their supposedly loving grandparents .

My wifes the biggest loser in this as shes lost her family because her parents chose to support abusers and disgarded my wife and her family because I wouldn't cover up their wrongs

My nephews the biggest victim because he must have went through unimaginable pain at 4 and 7 weeks when 3 ribs were broken by people who were supposed to protect him then his own grandparents literally threw him into the lions. Disgusting

Oh and my Wifes Mum had another go at manipulation with me a few weeks ago when I asked her if she was involved with the messages my SIL had been sending my Wife as I feel they are cruel and emotion torture. (It's not even as if my Wife has been replying to them) My MIL confirmed she was aware my SIL was texting her and then said "and why shouldn't she". The last part really angered me so I then told her to pass on the message to my SIL that contact was not welcome and basically to shove the messages where the sun doesn't shine.

My MIL then starts with the "Does what your wife wants not matter to you?" but I was alert to what she was trying to do and said yes it does matter, but my children's safety always comes first and I'm safeguarding them from they animals. At that point, my FIL pops his head around the door and says "it takes one to know one pal".

I just wish my wife could see that all I want is a happy and safe up bringing for my kids and I'm not convinced this is possible with such poisonous people around.

Its no wonder my MIL has no real relationship with her own extended family and my FIL's family and parents cant stand her. My FIL's own brother and wife thinks my MIL controls my FIL and also thinks it was my SIL who harmed my nephew because of just how much support my MIL and FIL have provided to them.

OP your wife's family sound awful. On those facts I'd consider going no contact with all of them. Being low contact with even the parents seem to cause all sorts of drama and gives them a chance to push your wife into resuming a relationship with your sister.

Be supportive of your wife and suggest she get into therapy. She has been heavily conditioned by her family and needs time to unlearn all the things she's internalised.

I think your instincts are spot on. You're a great dad and husband.