To be convinced it's trauma not autism?

[Prepaymentfear]

My 4 year old has SEN. She came very close to diagnostic criteria of autism but not quite when she was nearly 3. From when I was pregnant until she was 2yr2m she lived in a house with routine violence, her father has a conviction for one and in family court admitted further 46 and those were just the ones when DD was present and therefore relevent.

I agree it's not autism, she just doesn't fit but she does fit with ptsd and all the lists of symptoms I have seen?

I guess my question is.. aibu to think a 4 year old could still be experiencing the affects when she hasn't seen him in nearly 3 years and life has been completely stable since?

Developmental trauma can be caused from day one. Lots of therapy needed, as some previous posters have said trauma & attachment issues can look a lot like ASD.

Yes absolutely could be due to trauma . Trauma is often misdiagnosed as ASD. Just been on a course about it. And yes she can very much be affected by the trauma at that age and it can affect the way the brain develops. Well done for picking up on this. Definitely discuss this with the professionals that you are working with. The strategies for difficulties as a result of trauma are likely to be different to strategies used to support ASD. Good luck.

Yes absolutely. My DD lived with violence until she was about 3.5. We still see some results nearly 10 years later and yes, many of the early ones resembled autism and she's been tested for it a number of times. It does get better but agree with PP who says treat them as though they were a younger child. Hugs to both of you 💐💐

Of course it's trauma you know this really op.
She will have started to absorb in in utero with the increased cortisol levels.

You have been very brave though and o don't want to detract from that.

Play therapy can work wonders x

Could it be both?

I know I've taught a lot of students who came from primary school with a history of trauma which concealed other learning and social difficulties until much later in life.

Early trauma can have extremely long-lasting effects precisely because the child is too young to fully process what has happened to them, and do not have the language or complexity of thought to articulate their feelings about it.

I've felt compelled to respond to your post. As it's so close to my own experience.
My DD is 4 years 8 months old. She experienced a year of major trauma in our home from age 2 to 3. Not caused by the same thing as yours, but violence and aggression triggered by her step brothers own trauma related mental illness (he was 14 -15 at the time)
So needless to say I've done some serious reading on many aspects of trauma related behaviour, autism and Asperger syndrome and PDA amongst others. My DSS was always 'diagnosed' by his birth mother as on the spectrum and 'just born wrong'. This in itself induced attachment disorder with his mother (Thier relationship was always full
Of aggression and conflict at unbelievably epic levels!) and trauma related illness in my DSS. I'm very sure of this and CAMHS agreed whenever they were involved - which is not much:( (Go private for care if you possibly can!) Anyway. He was eventually taken into care as we couldn't manage him any more. This very nearly broke me and my DH. We are working now with my DSS to repair and help him recover. He's doing really well. However, my point is, my DD has suffered massively with PTSD and fear of loss. When children suffer loss and trauma they switch off their empathetic 'feeling' part of the brain, and switch on their reptilian 'flight or fight' part of the brain. This can make them overreact and struggle with emotions in the same way we would normally. My daughter still struggles with some things and particular with fear of people leaving - she refused to say good bye to family when they go and often kicks off after.
But. She is getting better. So is my DSS. Keep reading reputable information about trauma. I can also recommend 'What every parent needs to know' by Margot Sutherland. It's great at linking the brain and how it works to behaviour. Trust yourself. I'm 99% sure you are right in your own diagnosis of your little one. Hugs to you both. X

There’s a very good book, The Body Keeps the Score, about PTSD and complex PTSD, written by a leader in the field, which definitely backs up your thinking OP.

People claim someone can't be a 'bit autistic,' but that isn't the case. Someone can have severe autistic traits while not meeting the full criteria.

That's bullshit, people who meet the triad of impairments are autistic, having traits doesn't make a person autistic. They're just a person with autistic traits, they aren't autistic by any measure.
There is no such thing as being "a bit autistic" and it's minimizing the problems and struggles of actual autistic people to suggest there is.
I don't know how many times this needs to be said on here but only autistic people are on the autistic spectrum. Oh, and there's no such thing as "severe autistic traits" either.

@Prepaymentfear if you don't mind the suggestion, I'd recommend that you post this again in the adoption board. You will find many experts in developmental trauma in children over there, as they are the people who live and breathe this stuff day in, day out.

Just to challenge a few posters above who've queried the effects of trauma on such young infants - it's actually proven that babies in the womb are flooded with cortisol (the fight-or-flight hormone/chemical when they experience terrors such as domestic violence (you only have to think about how babies in the womb respond to music or important voices to understand this). The body very definitely keeps the score as these children live in a hyper-vigilant, heightened state and cannot cope with the stresses and strains of life.

I would suggest that developmental trauma is not necessarily synonymous with attachment disorder - without wishing to make you feel guilty or hurt your feelings, attachment disorders are generally triggered by the responses or the lack of them towards the baby/child by the primary caregiver/s. For example, if a mother/parent is unavailable and does not respond appropriately to the child.

You've had some brilliant advice here and maybe it would be worth seeking a referral to your local CAMHS service to seek some help for your child?

I think you are right, Prepayment. Thank goodness you got your daughter out of that situation while she was still so young - but these things stay in the sub and unconscious and she probably does need professional help as well as your love and support.

What Mrsjayy said above is about right.

Good luck from me too.

No wonder my relationship with my youngest is the way it is, thank you for the insights on this thread

Have a look at Kim Golding's "Everyday Parenting with Security and Love: Using PACE to Provide Foundations for Attachment".

I can remember instances of my mum and dads violence from when i was younger then three. I wasn’t believe until I pointed out what people were wearing, what the room looked like etc, and then they couldn’t argue with my memory.

Barnardos have some centres that work with traumatised children who've experienced DV
To the PP who doubted what your infant saw has affected her, I'd skip the science and say read Bruce Perry "the boy who was raised as a dog"
You have received some wise advice on here but the adopters section might also be a place to post for experience and advice

Read up on 'disrupted attachment' and ACE's (adverse child experiences). It absolutely can have an ongoing impact.

@Moominmammaatsea I would suggest that developmental trauma is not necessarily synonymous with attachment disorder I think that this is right - however without wishing to make you feel guilty or hurt your feelings, attachment disorders are generally triggered by the responses or the lack of them towards the baby/child by the primary caregiver/s. For example, if a mother/parent is unavailable and does not respond appropriately to the child it is difficult to know from how you have phrased it, but I am not sure you are right in your thinking here - firstly, yes, I am sure the OP is aware that where a mother is the victim of dv (or ill, or depressed) this will impact on her ability to respond appropriately - but this can be repaired - but there can be attachment issues even if all the right responses are being given by the primary caregiver eg where a child is ill and in pain and in hospital and preverbal - though again, this can be repaired.

Developmental trauma starts in uteruo. Domestic violence can definitely cause this. Children are never too young to experience or remember trauma. It is really dangerous in my opinion- and factually incorrect- to state children are not aware or dont remember things.
Well done OP on moving forward and getting help. Play therapy has been a good suggestion.

OP I have been through this and come out the other end. dc was nearly 2 when the trauma occurred and is now 8.

To try to be brief,what I learned was that trauma and autism and adhd can present in a similar way because the same part of the brain is affected - trauma is recoverable from with the right therapies - at the point where it isn't clear whether it is trauma or a disorder, the brain is basically disconnected as a result of the trauma and before talking therapies can start, sensory integration therapies or helping the brain reconnect with the body is what is needed (do take professional advice on this though). In my case dc was 3 at this point, and for 2 years we did a lot of walking while holding hands (starting with a couple of hours every couple of days and increasing), trampolining (a lot), cranial osteopathy and massaging - sounds simple but obviously it isn't. We also did repetitive things such as montessori type activities. So from all this, over time regulation and spatial awareness and control all improved, emotions and hormones became balanced - it was amazing. The next phase was that my dc found it very hard to connect with other dc and fit in at school - they were then 5 - and again the senco thought that 1:1 would be needed - but in fact over time things continued to improve and by that time there was a lot of talking - about feelings, about strategies for coping and fitting in, social skills. It was all worth it and there were gradual changes and now my dc is robust, doing well in every sense. So take heart and keep faith!

These two resources are amazing, I think - the first is a lecture by a leader in the field and it is worth watching all the way through - the second is a short video explaining basically what I have said above better, made by clinical psychologists:

Yes it definitely could be trauma related. I have worked with children who suffered trauma as babies/toddlers and have then been adopted. Many of them had ongoing issues despite having a lovely family and life and lots of support. They would often be delightful young people but be very promiscuous and/or prone to dangerous outbursts or meltdowns.

@Flamingnora123 They would often be delightful young people but be very promiscuous and/or prone to dangerous outbursts or meltdowns I think that what we are realising now is that trauma can be recovered from with the right help, that "a lovely family and life" in itself won't be enough.

OP I wrote about my experiences a couple of posts above - just to clarify that when I said that I had been through it, I meant my dc's symptoms were seen as (severe) autism by others initially, and I believed that it was trauma and pushed that through. I haven't been through the DV you have been through and the trauma wasn't caused by DV. What you went through sounds awful, I just wanted to give you hope for your dc by explaining how successful the therapies were.

Thank you, I have been reading the responses but obviously it's quite emotional.

She has a peadiatric appointment in a few weeks so will be specifically questioning along these lines. That Coventry guide has been really beneficial for definitely making me clearer on the differences.

Thank you for all the moral support of getting out, don't think it will ever erase the guilt though!

I am in exactly the same situation, for the same reasons, with my DS but he’s 5.

OP my dc's trauma was to do with a medical thing, and we had moved and had a new doctor, and I truly believe that with a different doctor none of it would have happened - the doctor didn't listen to me and I tried to believe what I was being told - my guilt for not trusting my intuition and moving doctors sooner is immense. Just immense. We all make mistakes, we are all human - just focus on the here and now, and believe that you can turn things around for you both. The main thing is that you can make things better. And be aware of your own trauma. Good luck.