‘Grammar schools’ that are actually fee paying

[Vipersnest88]

AIBU to feel a bit irritated when people claim that ‘x county’ has grammar schools because there is ‘X grammar school’ there but it is an independent school and nothing of the sort? Often a not even particularly high performing school. I don’t understand why some comprehensive schools change their names with no issue for various reasons but yet these private schools with ‘grammar’ in their name never change?

Some may say it’s just a name but with all the politics/opinions/snobbery/competitiveness surrounding grammar schools these days, I am surprised they haven’t lost the ‘grammar’ part and wondering why?

Does it really matter? We’ve got one like that near us and everyone knows it’s private.

I did ask whether I was BU . And no it doesn’t really but round me it does grate on me a bit when I hear ‘DC goes to the grammar school’ - as if it’s an achievement - when it’s not even a grammar school. Having been to a grammar school myself I feel quite protective/proud of grammar schools! Maybe I need to get a life

I agree with you OP they are not grammar schools unless you get in on ability
That was the whole point of having grammar schools

What about the state comps that continue to call themselves a grammar without having any form of entry selection?

You’ve just answered your own question. Because people paying the extortionate fees that come with private senior schools like to pretend that their offspring are little geniuses. By saying they go to X Grammar they can continue to live that fantasy.

No-one does claim that? Most people understand a grammar school county is one with state grammar schools where all children get the chance to do the 11+

@SunglassQueen exactly! sort of undermines the whole principle.

Some you do get in on ability though. ManchesterGrammar school for instance is fee paying but highly selective. And needs blind if you are offered a place.

We considered it for academic DS, but the commute was a bit far.

@Rosehip10 but there are counties where private schools exist still called ‘x grammar school’ but there are no actual grammar schools still in existence.

@TinklyLittleLaugh fair enough but generally, if you’re willing to pay you can get a DC into whichever private school you want - as long as they are ok academically!

I guess because they were called grammar school in the original sense of the name, long before the modern day grammars which came into existence with the 11+ from the 1940s onwards. They’ve just kept their original name.

Harrogate Grammar School, Ilkley Grammar School , Prince Henry's Grammar School,Otley for example are all comprehensives and have been for decades and are, presumably, not selective. I'm guessing they think the 'grammar' bit adds cachet and they're not misleading anyone

So it's not just independent schools, many of which are selective.

@Gruzinkerbell1 ha yes - hence my irritation!

@campion I wasn’t aware that there are non selective comprehensive with grammar in the name - that does surprise me!!

It depends where you live really ,in my area there haven't been state Grammar schools since the early 80,s in the town I grew up.in ( next town along) it was the 70,s however there is a n independent school called " Town name " Grammar school everybody is fully aware it's fee paying and always has been as there arnt any state Grammar school,s they probably offer Bursery,s to the very academically able but that's not really the same thing .

@Vipersnest88 yes, but I personally haven't heard people describing such areas as grammar counties - whereas for example, people would say Kent and bucks have grammar schools

@Kazzyhoward I didn’t know that happened - that surprises me a lot. I have seen the private schools with those sorts of names (hence my post) but presumed a state school called ‘grammar’ would actually be a selective grammar!

Isn't it just a terminology thing? I went to a 'Grammar' that was a fee-paying all-girls school back in the 80s. There was a tough admission exam, which was always oversubscribed - about 400 would compete for 25 places each year - and it was in the Times 'top schools' reports for decades (it isn't now though).

No idea why it was called 'Grammar' as it had never been a state school, and the county had/has traditional Grammar schools. If you could afford, you would choose the private school (smaller classes, much better facilities, peer advantages), if you couldn't or didn't want to you would try for a place in the state versions.

@Rosehip10 probably less so about the counties themselves but more the whole ‘DC goes to the grammar’ - however I have heard people where I live (which is not a grammar school county) say ‘we do have grammar schools, what about x?’

@wink1970 yes it is terminology and it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme but it’s terms like ‘grammar’ that that give a certain cachet for parents even if it is unfounded! A private school could actually be not that great, just affluent and doesn’t mean a child is more intelligent if they go there.

There is a state comprehensive in my non grammar school county that still has grammar in its name. The only difference between this school and the other comprehensive schools in the area is that it also takes boarders.

Grammars historically (centuries before the grammar/comp/secondary modern system was set up) were schools with a more academic bias that often taught latin and greek - a lot of them were set up as charities by local benefactors. Some became state schools, some became private. A lot of the independent grammars also took able state pupils for free through the direct grant scheme until the government abolished it in the 80s.

We have two independents near us both use their old grammar names. RGS Guildford and Reigate Grammar School. Both are highly selective and in the top schools in the country. They certainly don't rely on grammar chachet. They are very very good schools. They are considerably cheaper than the public schools round here (£20k v £35k).

It's just a name. It's never occurred to me that state grammar might be somehow superior to a private school with "Grammar" in the name. These schools tend to pretty old, and the names well established. It would be a bit bizarre to rename them to prevent confusion with institutions that are rare or non-existant in the county, surely?

The two private grammars I can think of, in our non-grammar county, are both extremely difficult to get into and expensive.

I get more irritated by people who don’t understand the difference between super selectives and grammar. I’ve got one niece at a grammar in a grammar area and one at a super selective and the super selective one should get far more kudos imo since a pass fail selective system isn’t all that hard to pass but getting into a super selective is a massive achievement