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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

The NHS is fining me and I have no idea what for...

34 replies

GodThisIsEmbarrasing · 07/10/2019 09:04

A couple of weeks ago, I got a final demand from the NHS for dental charges. I emailed them to tell them that I had no idea what the letter related to, and they put it on hold for 21 days so that I could talk to the dentist.

I visited the dentist, who said they couldn't deal with things like this in person but to email them, which I did twice. I also called eight times and visited three more times. I also contacted the NHS again to say that the dentist couldn't provide me with any information, and therefore could they please provide me with information about what the charges were for. They said that if the form hadn't been signed by me, they'd cancel the fine, but the dentist would have the form, and they couldn't provide it.

The dentist say they don't have the form, have no knowledge of it and I need to contact the NHS as they are the ones fining me...

On Saturday I got another final demand, they've added another £50 onto the fee for non-payment. I have no idea if this even relates to treatment that I've had - I've been to the dentist once this year, for a filling, and was accompanied by a support worker as I was in a bipolar flare. The support worker thought we paid, but can't remember.

What else can I do?! I can't really afford the fine...

OP posts:

Tolleshunt · 07/10/2019 09:11

I can’t see how they can enforce the fine if neither they or the dentist can produce the form as evidence that you had the treatment.

Why can’t the dentist contact them and explain there’s nothing for you to pay? Or give you evidence that you didn’t pay, and need to now, with details of the treatment you had, breakdown of costs, etc? If the dentist don’t think they need to be paid then why is there an issue?

I would be starting to get very arsey with them now, as they are effectively harassing you while cocking up the admin at their end. Can you threaten to get your MP involved unless they either accept nothing is owed, or provide evidence that you do owe? Write to them and give them 10 working days to do this before you go to your MP.

Oliversmumsarmy · 07/10/2019 09:12

If the NHS can’t provide the form that you signed and the dentist doesn’t have the form that you signed how do they know you owe any money.

londonrach · 07/10/2019 09:14

I had a bill for nhs charges whilst i had my maternity exemption card but due to a admin error they didnt realise i had one. It was hell getting it sorted and after talking to them twice and them being very rude i sent a photocopy of the card. They phoned up and rudely told me it been cancelled and to make sure the correct number put in. I did explain i gave card dental receptionist as had hands full with dd. Good luck with this and they not easy to deal with.

TheAlternativeTentacle · 07/10/2019 09:14

Can you go back to the dentist, and get them to look at your account to find out when the last payment was made?

Tolleshunt · 07/10/2019 09:15

Oh and this

The dentist say they don't have the form, have no knowledge of it and I need to contact the NHS as they are the ones fining me...

sounds very much like bullshit, as the NHS must have had something from the dentist at some point, otherwise this query wouldn’t have been triggered. So if they think you don’t need to pay, then THEY should contact NHS and explain there’s been a mistake. It’s unreasonable for your dentist to expect you to be able to resolve this by yourself and for the NHS to just take your word for it. The dental surgery are being lazy.

shearwater · 07/10/2019 09:33

Tell them to provide chapter and verse evidence of what this is about, or they can do one.

Floralnomad · 07/10/2019 09:35

In your case I’d try the CAB and see if they can help , or do dentists have an equivalent of PALS as they are good at sorting issues .

Tojigornot · 07/10/2019 09:37

Telling them they can do one won’t work.

Can you look at your bank statements around the time of the filling and see if the payment is on there?

Jesse70 · 07/10/2019 09:39

I would assume u would have paid on card?
Can u check your bank account to make sure this happened

Also I'm confused to why a final demand was sent instead of just the bill

I would not be able to walk out of my dentist without paying

Sammy867 · 07/10/2019 09:48

A fine is generated if you say you are exempt but in fact do actually pay. They check all exemptions to make sure people actually receive the benefits they say they are.
It starts as £100 fine. The practice will be able to tel you if you had an exemption on your forms when it was sent. It may just be that the wrong box has been ticked or a previous exemption has not been removed but the fine isn’t to the dentist for not paying, its for saying you’re exempt when you’re not.

PerkingFaintly · 07/10/2019 09:50

Don't know if this is helpful, OP, but it's not just you.

NHS fines for 1.7 million people overturned, watchdog finds
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-48252897

The outsourcing company Capita was used for some of the fining and debt collection for dental treatments.
The National Audit Office said Capita keeps 100% of the fines and surcharges - with the NHS receiving the value of the treatment.
If fines are not paid, another company in the Capita group is used as a debt collector, keeping almost half of the money recovered. The contract is due to finish in December.

And:

MPs demand action over wrongly-issued NHS fines
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49755720

PerkingFaintly · 07/10/2019 09:52

Based on that, I'd go to your MP or to the CAB. They're likely to have seen lots of similar cases, and be able to push back – at least to find out what's gone on.

Floorcleaner · 07/10/2019 09:53

Hi OP

I am a practice manager of dental practice and sometimes come across this. At your last visit to the practice, were you exempt from paying NHS charges? If you have some sort of exemption, such as tax credits, universal credit, etc, you are supposed to show proof of this exemption at the time of treatment. If you do not have the proof, the practice management software the practice uses probably asks them to tick the exemption as seen or unseen.

If they ticked unseen because you didn't have your exemption cert with you, the NHS Business Services Authority sometimes checks up on this. The dental practice has nothing to do with this and would not be informed by the NHS about it at all. The first thing that I have heard about it over the years is a patient asking for help. What I've done is spoken to the NHS BSA on their behalf (it's better if you're there so you can give permission) and it is fairly straightforward to then clear up. The practice will be able to confirm the treatment you had and when.

When I've done this for patients, it has always been rectified.

Good luck.

PerkingFaintly · 07/10/2019 09:53

Sorry, I left out the important bit from the first article:

The National Audit Office has examined concerns about people being wrongly fined over claiming free treatment, particularly involving visits to the dentist, when they really were eligible.
The public spending watchdog, examining penalty notices since 2014, found 30% of the fines levied were subsequently withdrawn, representing £188m in fines that had been wrongly issued.

Becca19962014 · 07/10/2019 09:56

Do a subject access request (I think it's called that) for all of your notes with the NHS dept who have been contacting you(I assume it's the fraud dept) and the dentist. I've had to do this in the past when trying to sort out screw ups. Just ask for every single thing they have relating to you, no exceptions from x to y date.

The support worker should have notes relating to all this as well as out say you were in a mental health crisis.

I was fined for an NHS eye check after someone ignored my disability premiums and just ticked the box for incapacity benefit (which at the time was contribution based only for everyone). Took months to sort out.

Someone's ticked the wrong box will be what it is. Only way to find out who is the subject access request otherwise you'll get nowhere. Neither will admit they're in the wrong and both will deny having the stupid form.

LifeonVenus · 07/10/2019 09:56

I got a fine for dental care about a month ago. Called them up and it turned out that I had ticked a box saying I was on Jobseekers or something when I was on UC. They just cancelled it there and then.

MrsMaiselsMuff · 07/10/2019 09:56

Are you on benefits OP, do you definitely have to pay for treatment?

Is your support worker able to help you sort this out?

The dental surgery can deal with you in person. Go in and ask to speak to the practice manager. Ask them to check whether you paid for your last appointment. It should be there on their computer.

Also do you have the paperwork from your appointment? This will show if any exemption was claimed.

Becca19962014 · 07/10/2019 09:57

Massive x-post!

sweetheart · 07/10/2019 09:58

Under the new GDPR regulations you are allowed to apply for all records held about you - I have just done it for my son and I was provided with all notes on his file, letters and scans he has had. Perhaps if you say that under GDPR you want to see all information held on you otherwise you will report them for a breach of complainace to the ICO. That might get their arses into gear.

PurpleWithRed · 07/10/2019 10:09

Contact Citizen's Advice and your local Healthwatch and ask for help with this too. As you can see from PP there have been lots of issues with fines for NHS dental care and they should be able to advocate for you. In the meantime check your bank statement or any other paperwork to see if you have evidence of paying.

Lovemusic33 · 07/10/2019 10:15

NHS are fining people that are not providing proof that they are exempt from paying for dental work and prescriptions, or if you give the wrong reason for being exempt they can fine you. Maybe this is what’s happened? I was threatened with it as I lost my proof of exemption (they don’t give you a card anymore, just a letter), also got threatened by ticking the wrong box whilst filling out the prescription for one of my clients. Apparently they are cracking down on this. If you are exempt from paying for dental work then I would send proof to the NHS and maybe seek help from CAB.

Tonnerre · 07/10/2019 10:34

Just write to them to say that neither they nor the NHS have been able to produce any evidence that you have incurred this fine and, unless and until they do, you have no liability to pay anything.

katseyes7 · 07/10/2019 10:50

l started a course of dental treatment when l was very briefly on benefits before l began a seasonal contract job. However, halfway through the contract l lost my mother to suicide, and was put on sick leave until the end of it (6weeks).
After that l wasn't actually claiming any benefits (my head was way too muddled to cope with the application) and was living on savings. l'd also had to pause my course of dental treatment.
When l had the treatment completed, l asked at the surgery if there was anything to pay. They said no. l explained the circumstances, that l'd been on benefits when l started the course, but it had taken longer than expected, they said again, nothing to pay.
A while later l got a letter fining me for fraudulently claiming free treatment. l sent them two letters explaining what the surgery had said, and asked them to confirm this with the surgery. All to no avail. l paid the fine, but l was bemused as to how l was expected to pay the surgery for the treatment when they insisted l didn't owe them anything, and said they couldn't take payment from me because of that. .
l'd keep telling them your circumstances. And do what PP have suggested - speak to the practice manager.

WhatToDo999 · 07/10/2019 10:50

Keep all the emails, and logs of all the phone calls and visits you have made to the Dentist. Forward these to the NHS, say here is my evidence that I have been trying to resolve this matter.

Neither myself or my dentist have any knowledge of the treatment for which i am being charged, and in the circumstances you would be grateful for written confirmation that the fine is cleared, and the matter closed.

HTH x

megletthesecond · 07/10/2019 11:00

I get a fine letter after every check up. And every time I get one I ring the number and give them my tax credits exemption details they apologise and double check my details. I've also checked my details with the dentist.
Then I get another fine letter 6 month later at my next check up and we go through it all again.
I reckon there's a tiny typo in my details on one database and it's not being accepted by the other one and triggering a fine letter. Maybe we'll figure out what it is eventually.

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