To think whole class detentions are lazy teaching practice?

[Helpmestartagain]

Four kids kept talking in class, were told to stop and didn't so teacher gave whole class lunchtime detention. They are 13.
29 kids who did nothing now have to miss their lunchtime clubs /miss time with their friends. I know this is true.
I'm not going to complain (yet I might of it keeps happening) but aibu to think this is a lazy way to disciplen a class.

It's not their responsibility either to tell the teacher who kept talking. They haven't gone to school to be security guards.

Did your child tell you only 4 kids were talking. I find this very hard to believe.

I dont usually agree with while class detentions. However it is sometimes very VERY difficult to keep track of which students are the ones causing trouble. I had a class once where most of the kids were generally ok but there were 5 troublemakers - unfortunately once the 5 started to mess around the others often started jumping on board and it sometimes felt like the whole class were talking or messing around. I would try really hard to write down those who were behaving so I would exclude them from class detentions, however this was very difficult whilst also trying to control the class and teach a half decent lesson. I dont think I was being lazy, I was just struggling to manage with a really tricky class.

Yes lazy teaching. It isn't the responsibility of the "good" students to "pressure" those who cannot as easily access education in the way we prescribe it.

the rest of the class will pressure the naughty and disruptive children to stop being naughty and disruptive

1. this never works, can’t you remember your school days? The «naughty and disruptive» are quite often bullies on the side.
2. so the teacher doesn’t want to do a targeted punishment but expects the «rest if the class» to do it instead?

I'm just about to complain to the school for whole class punishments.
DS3's class has missed three break times since they started back at school and DS2 has missed two PE sessions and a break.
It's demotivating, they're fed up of it and are complaining about going to school. It's obviously not effective as they keep having to do it.

P.S. I realise that just makes me sound like a crap teacher. I had 2 statements children in that class, no TA help, plus a raft of other SN from various kids in the class. Two of the children from that class were eventually moved to pupil referral units and one to a special needs school. It was not an easy class.

I agree. I've never liked this. I remember myself at school being punished for because of something somebody else has done. Similar happened to my mum when she was at school, except they all got the cane!! Punish those who have caused trouble not the good ones!

Yes, it is.

As my own primary school teacher mum said, if one pupil misbehaves, it's an issue with the pupil, but if the whole class misbehaves (or the teacher feels they need to punish them all), then it's an issue with the teacher.

Yes, it’s unfair. Imagine you were at work and got disciplined for a mistake your colleague made - would that be OK?

I know schools have a hard job and I am supportive of them but sometimes they do still get it wrong. This “schools can never do anything wrong ever” attitude on mumsnet is very annoying. You get lazy, ineffectual people who aren’t good at their job in every walk of life and teachers aren’t immune from this.

It’s a bit crap as is the technique of sitting a good, quiet kid next to the naughty ones all the time to ‘manage’ their behaviour. I didn’t really have all class detentions as a child but I really resented being sat next to the horrid kids. It always felt like a massive punishment for being good despite the teachers dressing it up as a chance to teach others and expand my learning. I saw through that bollocks from an early age.

@PleasePassTheCoffeeThanks - i wouldn't be surprised if PP was one of those kids.

@Userzzzzz - that used to happen to me as well. Gee thanks teacher, another time of the week where my life is going to be a complete misery.

Loving the 'grammar police' who can't read properly. The 'might of' in the OP is clearly a typo for 'might if'. 'Might have' wouldn't even make sense there. If you're going to attempt pedantry, at least get it right.

YANBU OP. Class detentions are rubbish, lazy and are often doled out by inexperienced teachers with poor classroom management.

I think it’s incredibly effective because the rest of the class will pressure the naughty and disruptive children to stop being naughty and disruptive

That's the theory. In practice it just doesn't happen, unless the miscreant is unpopular generally, and the kids would be having a go at them anyway. But more usually, they aren't unpopular.

Yes OP, it's lazy and you don't punish kids for something they haven't done,

Yanbu

How are a group of 13 yr olds meant to achieve what 8 years of school teachers and parents haven't.

Kids are there to learn..they are responsible for their own behaviour no one elses.

I wonder if it was a final straw. Whole class being disruptive so teacher threatens whole class detention if anyone else misbehaves, majority listen but these 4 don't, teacher has do follow through on threat.

the whole class misbehaves (or the teacher feels they need to punish them all), then it's an issue with the teacher.

Can assure you that this is bollocks. It can be an issue with the teacher, it can be an issue with the composition of the class, and it can also be an issue with the school behaviour policy.

MollyD88 I'm backing up Tonnerre in that it's clear that OF was a typo for IF in this case (the letters being next to each other) as HAVE wouldn't work in the sentence you've decided to pick up on. So you've made yourself look like even more of an arse. AliciaQuays you look a bit stupid, too.

@shatnerswig and everyone else - you’re right. Apologies. First failed IVF transfer today. Not with it, shouldn’t have tried to engage, I am an arse.

For what it’s worth, don’t agree with whole class detention at all.

The good kids don't put pressure on the bad ones to behave. I should know. I was one of the good kids and the bad kids were the ones who bullied me.

I should know. I was one of the good kids and the bad kids were the ones who bullied me

The bad kids are also the ones who dont give a shit what you do half the time.

Or they wouldnt be the bad kids would they. theyd be the good kids who messed up accidently every now and then.

Effectively you are sending the.message that it doesnt matter how hard you work or how well you behave you get punished regardless.

Good luck with your next transfer Molly

Class detentions build huge resentment in those were not misbehaving. The idea that the well behaved pupils can influence the poorly behaved pupils to behave better is unrealistic and any good teacher should recognise this. The teacher is effectively punishing good behaviour. If it continues I would complain if your DC is OK with it.

I once got roped into a whole class detention for a lesson I was off sick for. Don't try and tell me that was fair!

All whole class detentions ever did for our peer group was make us strangely united in dislike for the teacher, who we saw as incredibly weak for being unable to pinpoint the bad behaviour.

It's also incredibly backward thinking to imagine that the quiet, well-behaved children have influence over the loud disruptive ones!

I think it just encourages the well behaved to behave worse as they learn they will be put in detention anyway

I don’t believe in whole class detentions unless the whole class was messing about. What you sometimes get from children, though, is a distorted picture in which, because their own behaviour wasn’t as bad as that of three or four “ringleaders”, they don’t see that they were also involved. They will say it was a couple of people messing about when actually it was three people and a willing audience of twenty egging them on, with five or six kids behaving exactly as they should have been. I always let those kids go.