How do I tell my friend that

[CTRL]

I don’t want to babysit or have playdates because her son (Jacob) is too rude and lacks discipline?

I feel terrible but I’ve known her for about a year when our boys made friends with each other and I used to collect her son sometimes when I collected mine and we would go to town to get a happy meal or ice cream or something. Then we started sleepovers and it went abit pear shaped. Her son had fun and always wanted to come round but he exhausted me so much that I stopped the sleepovers as I would constantly be talking and repeating myself, I’d have a headache as her sons voice is so loud, my neighbours downstairs (whom I’ve never had a problem with for the whole 5 years I’ve been here) would complain that the jumping around and stomping would be abit much, and on top of that her son wouldn’t sleep. Even though at home he has a bedtime at 8pm.
I stopped the sleepovers and decided I’d stick to play dates after school but i found every shop we passed, Jacob would either go in or tell me what he wants from the shop. When I said no he would start screaming and crying (He does this to his mum and the mum would always buy him what he wants to shut him up- even if she didn’t have the money). So play dates after school stopped. Then I would go to Jacobs house and have playdates at his house while I have a catch up with his mum. Again we’ve had to slow those down as his behaviour at home is just insane. He shouts at his mum and tells her he hates her, hits her, slams doors, ignores her every word. It’s just too much. Even I leave because I feel uncomfortable and I want to tell her son off but I don’t want to overstep boundaries and I feel like If his mum is fine with it (and always downplays it) then I suppose I have to be. Jacob also has a younger sister whom is about 2 who is now starting to pick up on this and now copies everything Jacob does.

I’ve joking mentioned to her that he has a temper for a 5 year old but she will laugh it off. The school often tell her that her son doesn’t always listen in class, his disruptive or that he has done x y and z. She will tell them he is only a child and she can’t stop how children behaves....now I get that to some extent but her son is rude.
Once or twice she has had to fend off angry parents who’s children have been hit by Jacob or Jacob has taken thier toy. Again my friend would be convinced it’s not her son - when she clearly knows his behaviour.

My friends family friends refuse to babysit or have playdates because of Jacobs behaviour, but she thinks they are being weird and unhelpful.

Should I tell her to maybe consider different discipline techniques or should I stay out of it and limit playdates and contact?

I feel like this is cheeky to even ask but like I said she’s a good friend and every now and then she will have my son over for a few hours and honestly I would like to return the favour as much as I used to before; but I find it so exhausting and his behaviour really tests my patience.

The only thing you can do is tell her straight.
What’s the worse that’ll happen she’ll fall out with you. You’ve only known her a year so She’s hardly a life long friend is she.
If she’s not going to discipline her son then she has to be prepared for the consequences of people not being prepared to look after him. Unless he has a disability that makes him behave the way he does, she can help or it or at least try to.

You really need to be honest with her. If you don't feel you can say it to her face, write her a message or long text explaining how you consider her to be a great friend etc and that you really want to return the favour. However you cannot cope with his behaviour.

If she really is a good friend, she'll not kick off and take it on board out of respect for your friendship. After all, it can't be a healthy friendship if you cannot be honest with each other and give occasional constructive criticism where it's really needed.

Good luck

My children are adults now, but I had this exact experience with a friend of my son when he was five years old. Made friends with the mum from school, and her child was an absolute nightmare. I really tried to foster the relationship, but it was impossible. My son got to the point where he would dread having play dates with this little terror. I backed away, she asked why, and I told her the truth. Of course she was defensive and said her son was just "spirited", but at that point I didn't care. Not only was he miserable to be around, but I didn't want his behaviour to influence my child. There are some people you simply can't have a relationship with.

I would stay out of it and leave it to his school. And I think you shouldn’t ask her to have your son.
Could you meet up for play dates somewhere like park or soft play area; or go to the cinema? So you all will be doing something together but your friend will be supervising her son.

Once, I told a boy off for the way he spoke to his mom. I managed to do it in a way that wasn’t belittling to the mom, I told him never to speak to his mother that way, and how would he feel if another child or adult spoke to her like crap!
The mom thanked me and nearly burst into tears. She was a single mom so had no one to back her up. She let her son get his way for fear of rejection by him.
Have a gentle but firm word with him in front of her, and compliment her at the same time. She might be grateful for it.

If this behaviour is showing up both at school and at home (or when with you) it may be poor parenting but it sounds to me a lot like ADHD, combined type. The inability to be calm and quiet or pay attention are all signs. When on playdates this behaviour can become worse because of the added element of excitement. When it is your child that presents with the signs of ADHD it is very easy to miss it as you have no baseline for 'normal' unless you spend a lot of time with other people's children.

^^sorry, that should say 'when it is you FIRST child'

Well, you’re going to have to bite the bullet and be honest with her, whether in person or by email (I think long texts are best avoided).

But you’re also going to have to stop dropping your child around to her place, or accepting any babysitting at all. You can’t just say ‘my boy is well behaved, so it’s different’.

Unfortunately I think there’s a good chance she’ll ghost you rather than face the truth about her (bad) parenting. Deep down she knows it, so it’s denial you’re working with here. By 5yo she’s seen enough other kids (including yours, close up) to know. So you won’t be informing her of anything more than ‘sorry, I just can’t take him anymore.’

No one takes that news well about their beloved kid. Prepare to abandon the friendship.

Have I missed something because I can't understand why you have the child so much

Tbh I'm not sure if I would in this case. I'm generally for honesty in situations but people are very precious where their little darlings are concerned, especially the parents who don't tend to discipline their children. It sounds like lots of people have tried to tell her but she seems unwilling or incapable of doing anything about it. I suspect if you did say something she'd resent you for it.

How about you take the parent for a coffee and discuss new parenting books you have been reading? Start a slightly more generic conversation and then mention sometimes, you find your own child a bit of a handful, so your trying to figure new ways to improve the situation.
This hopefully may allow the mother an opportunity to maybe open up about her own child.
I do appreciate this is somewhat of a convoluted way of approaching this situation but who know-she may grab the chance to chat without judgement.

I would try to say as little as possible whilst also being as authentic as possible.

Eg. If he starts shouting, you could grimace and say, "I think that's our cue to leave."

I would have them round but phone the mum the minute he misbehaves and ask for her to collect him. That makes it a consequence and not a general value judgement about him.

You could tell her that your DC has been playing up, so you need to be stricter about what is okay behaviour. You can be nice about it, just say you can't handle the unfairness whinging of her DC is allowed to do X.

Next time invite them to meet you somewhere so she stays and if it's too much, leave, but in a friendly "I'll leave this to you, good luck," way.

I absolutely agree with @VenusTiger.

If this behaviour is showing up both at school and at home (or when with you) it may be poor parenting but it sounds to me a lot like ADHD

The cause behind his behaviour is irrelevant to the OP's dilemma, though. The OP is no more obliged to look after a child who behaves badly and aggressively because of ADHD than she is obliged to look after a child who behaves badly and aggressively because he's naughty. The child having ADHD, rather than just being naughty, doesn't suddenly mean that it will be easier or less stressful for the OP to deal with him.

OP, I think you're absolutely right to scale back on the playdates and babysitting but you also have to stop asking your friend to look after your son too - otherwise it's simply not fair. If your friend asks you why you aren't keen to mind her son or set up playdates with your own child, I think you need to be honest and say 'I'm really sorry, but the last few times he was so challenging that I honestly didn't feel I could cope with his behaviour and my own DC was getting quite upset and stressed by it all. Jacob is a lovely little boy but it's got to the point that when I look after him, I don't really feel like I'm in control of him and it doesn't like a safe situation for either Jacob or my DC.'

You've already said that other people won't look after Jacob. At the moment, you are the one person who is still convincing your friend that his behaviour isn't a problem - every time her family say his behaviour is too difficult, she'll be thinking 'Well, OP manages him OK so he can't be that bad.' I think she does need to get to the point where nobody will deal with him before she realises that his behaviour is a major issue.

@underground76 I didn't say it had anything to with it at all, what I am saying is that it sounds like there may be more going on that it seems like on the surface.

Why have you only pointed out what I said without latching on to others who have suggested giving her parenting advice? The reason I pointed it out is that people are often quick to judge other people's parenting from a snippet of their lives while not seeing that there may be more to the story. It may just be poor parenting but it may not and all the things mentioned can be characteristic of ADHD.

I'd say something. The saying 'that's just children' needs countering with "no it's not, children that age can behave if they're are given boundaries and there are consequences for poor behaviour". I'm surprised school haven't reinforced that with a) an invitation to sit in on a lesson & see that the other children can behave & he is being disruptive & and b) worked with her & implemented a reward & consequence system. He's the one who is going to suffer in the end, he'll be that annoying kid no-one likes, who struggles with life skills like structure, work routines & conforming.

Not normal behaviour for a five year old. I’d say it’s either ADHD or he’s on the spectrum. Maybe you can gently suggest he needs more help.

This is normal behaviour for a child raised without routine, structure, boundaries and gentle firm discipline. It can also be normal for children brought up with structure, boundaries and gentle firm discipline but who have a condition such as ADHD or autism.