Non Binary - aren’t we all NB? Why is it being toyed as something new?

[Toorahtoorahaye]

Just saw a popular twitter thread on the new Non Binary thing. I just don’t understand what they think they are doing that is so radically different. For folk confused or interested it’s worth a read. mobile.twitter.com/simone__kern/status/1179081710522306560

Rejecting gender stereotypes and being expected and forced to act, dress a certain way - yes can understand the desire to opt out of that. But the claim goes further to opting out of sex - being male or female. The female non binary folk are going to find that it’s not going to be easy to ignore sex and biology. Call yourself what you want but sex/biology will still rest it’s head - especially if you’re female

But the claim goes further to opting out of sex - being male or female.

Ample demonstration, if it were needed, that far too many people still don't grasp the subtle distinction between biological realities and social constructions.

Until it's possible to upload thissel into the cloud, no one can opt out of being male or female.

I was talking about this with my husband the other day. I was explaining that I would probably be described as non binary or gender fluid but I've never felt the need to. I'm straight, married, 2 kids, im female. But I'm not femine, I prefer male company, not into make up, heels, clothes, etc never have been. I don't even know how to explain what being female feels like. I am just me. Everyone is different and everyone is an individual and I don't see why anyone wants or need a label. It's not necessary

Dd has just filled in an application form

Its says SEX

Male, female, non binary, prefer not to say

If it's "I feel a bit masculine and a bit feminine" well that's nice but so what? To what end? How is this going to remotely change the way the world interacts with you?

It means you join an elite club of other enlightened non binary people who are too special to be like the rest of us, they validate your existence and give you a sense of belonging.

The majority of the population will roll their eyes at you and think you are a self obsessed idiot jumping on a bandwagon.

You don't like the stereotypes of womanhood then challenge them. Wear what you like, dye your hair blue if you like, work in construction and play football if you like. You are still a woman whether you like it or not.

Lovetoread84

Sounds exactly like me.

I would say one aspect of being female is the heightened alertness to danger just because you’re female. I’m not wallflower, will happily walk around in the dark taking common sense cautions. I’ve never been a victim of assault, domestic violence, sexual assault or anything to (rightly) bias my thinking but do understand the sense of danger and vulnerability being a female.

I was flashed a lot as a schoolgirl - not because I was pretty or anything like that but just because I was wearing a girl’s school uniform. (I have no lingering trauma from that as we simply laughed at them.)
If I see a group of males coming towards me I’m aware that I’m vigilant not because of anything they may have done but just because as a female I’m a potential target.

I do feel that’s an aspect of ‘feeling’ female.

Please no one smack me over the head with this if I get it wrong (it was 12 years and a lot f wine ago), but I did a history degree, and there was a really fascinating lecture on sex and gender paradigms through history.

In the medieval period, your humours determined your personality (sanguine, phelgmatic etc), and men and women were scientifically considered to have "one body" - the uterus and ovaries being an inverse penis and scrotum. Men would normally be considered to have one balance of humours, women another, but there was nothing to stop a man or woman having a typically more male or female disposition.

Yes, male traits were usually more valued, and yes, you would be considered a bit of an oddity for stepping out of gender norms, but that's how it was understood. (there were other implications - e.g. it was believed that unless a woman orgasmed, she didn't release eggs, so on the one hand, men wanted their wives to enjoy sex, on the other, rape victims were disbelieved if they got pregnant because they must have enjoyed it).

Then at some point it was 'discovered' that we have two different bodies, and at the same time, it was agreed that women's bodies were inferior, physically and mentally. This was part of the fundamental opposition to women having the vote.

Now I'm not saying it was better in the medieval times for women, but I certainly think the idea that we are all more separated by our individual dispositions than our sex biology rings more true to me!

I wish I'd taken that module (not that cultural and race history wasn't interesting), but because it was bloody interesting stuff!

Labels are meant to "do" something. Being deaf tells you I need to lip read what you say so look at me. Being lactose intolerant means I might spew if you cook me something with milk in. Being dyslexic means you might get more work out of me if you give me a laptop not a notepad and pen. (am not any of these myself for the record )

There are labels which don't really do much but reveal something about me and may help you interact with me. I'm shy. I'm sweary. I'm a dog lover.

I'm non-binary means bugger all. It doesn't do a "job" and doesn't help anyone relate or interact with you in a meaningful way. You might as well say "I'm flibbilywibbily".

A great many people have never slotted into precise 'types'.

Why do so many people need labels nowadays to validate themselves.

Can they just not accept that people are complex beings and cover a wide spectrum of 'types', be that gender or anything else, and that most people will likely move across that spectrum to some extent during their life time without putting a label on it.

The whole thing reads like a load of silly, self indulgent, look at me, look at me I'm so special, nonsense.

For those saying Non-binary and genderfree are the same... not quite.

“Non-Binary” people seek personal exemption from “gender norms” (stereotypes) - or at least to mix and match which ones apply to them - whilst supporting their imposition on everyone else.

Genderfree is support for a release from “gender norms” (stereotypes) for everyone - and accepting everyone as a sex + a unique personality.

I’m a woman.

Non-binary means take note of me I'm special !

I'm flibbilywibbily thank you - I needed a I want flibbilywibbily merchandise now.

Hasn’t Sam Smith just decided he is non binary?

I have no idea why as I always thought he was a gay man. Or now has he decided he is a gay man who sometimes feels a bit feminine as he likes heeled shoes and a bit of nail varnish?

I don't even recognise gender as a thing that exists. Your biological sex makes you a man or a woman. What people call 'gender' is actually just a bunch of stereotypes.
If I'm a woman who only likes to wear trousers and shirts, and who likes doing diy and hates make-up, that's what I am - a woman who does those things. The label 'non-binary' or 'gender-fluid' (or whatever) does not add any meaning or clarity to what I am. And yes, if non-binary were actually a thing, then everyone is it. Because surely nobody embraces every single stereotype of their sex.

I don't even recognise gender as a thing that exists. Your biological sex makes you a man or a woman. What people call 'gender' is actually just a bunch of stereotypes.
If I'm a woman who only likes to wear trousers and shirts, and who likes doing diy and hates make-up, that's what I am - a woman who does those things. The label 'non-binary' or 'gender-fluid' (or whatever) does not add any meaning or clarity to what I am. And yes, if non-binary were actually a thing, then everyone is it. Because surely nobody embraces every single stereotype of their sex.

Exactly, we, as women have spent the last 50 or more years trying break away from those stereotypes but all of a sudden the left, who were always friends of that want to label us all and put us back into those boxes? wtaf is going on here

*“Non-Binary” people seek personal exemption from “gender norms” (stereotypes) - or at least to mix and match which ones apply to them - whilst supporting their imposition on everyone else.

Genderfree is support for a release from “gender norms” (stereotypes) for everyone - and accepting everyone as a sex + a unique personality."*

This is a nice concise way of putting it. It also demonstrates that 99% of people (yes I pulled that figure out of the air based on my experience) are 'genderfree' as no-one I know believes that your personality can be predicted by the version of genitals you have. I think people who are very adamant about non-binary are perhaps very rigid in their thinking and have not yet grasped that most people do not believe in gender norms / stereortypes. When we day 'female' or 'woman' we mean that her contribution to procreation is eggs ad a womb and we don't anything else. The whole idea is based on a poorly thought through premise of what other people think which bears no relation to reality. I think there is just an education issue. It's bonkers to be arguing about this rather than seeing that mostly we agree that the world is full of massive gender inequality and silly rules about what girls and boys can do/ wear/ say/ think and then working together to actually do something about it. I do fear that these ideologies are distracting from the work that needs to be done and therefore in some ways actually part of the problem.