Illegal migrants

[Vinculin]

I am a lecturer. I have found out today I must report students of mine who are illegally in the UK (enemy aliens for want of a better word). How do fellow academics, doctors, nurses, social workers (who I believe are all in the same boat, being supposed to report) deal with this? Do I truly have to breach trust?

We were told as secondary school teachers that the type of thing we should look out for are children who are called a different first name by friends/family. However, that occurs in many cultures where there will be a name related to their birth order or role in the family or perhaps they will have a Christian or Anglicised name as well as a name from their country or language.

They are suspicious of these particular people because they might have valid papers but in someone else's name which does happen and I'm aware of that happening in schools but all countries they hailed from were in some sort of war,ethnic cleansing or whatever other political or social tension. I'd have no part in sending them back anywhere.

They want ordinary teachers, midwives, doctors to play the role of immigration officers.

You don't break the law or facilitate the law to be broken and you report as you are required to do so.

I am in favour of open borders, but that is neither here nor there.

That seems a bit relevant, don’t you think? Remember that most of the UK population does not agree with that opinion, and elects governments in accordance with its views...

If they are not entitled to be here then you absolutely report them - we have crippled public services as it is without funding the rest of the world

They should go through the proper channels just like we all would if we wanted to emigrate

There is a difference between those who are in UK under false identities or papers, or have none at all, who should be identified by the application process and those who have student visas but do not show up for the course. Latter is something that can only be determined by attendance records marked by lecturers and tutors. Was there not a London college a few years ago which got swooped on and was found to have a low attendance/high drop out rate among those on sponsored visas.

It’s not possible for you to enforce or police this. This would be the responsibility of admissions.

The fact that a student is having problems with their status sounds off. Surely if a student is authorised to start a course, then they should be able to complete it?

Has the student contacted any migrants rights organisations or sought legal advice? Can the student union be of help?

Not if they lied TinyGhost

So, let me get this right. In theory I could walk into a place of education, attend lectures, be awarded a degree without a single piece of paper proving who I am or where I have come from, if I am legally allowed to be in the his country or indeed proof that I meet the academic requirements to even be on that course? And at the end of it all if no one has twigged or reported me I get a degree?

How can that be?

Of course the piece of paper that says I am allowed to do all this could be fake in which case this would be fraud. If you know this is happening then I do absolutely think you should report it.

What if the degree were medicine? I am horrified at the potential consequences.

@notangelinajolie
This could happen to students who were born in the UK (so have a British birth certificate), but are illegal as their parents are illegal. I know a couple of families like this, where a child got good enough grades to read medicine or law (school education is available to everyone, legal or illegal), but then got pulled out in the middle of the year due to paperwork not adding up after the funding checks - as British birth certificate was sufficient to enrol them as a "home" student, no further checks were made.
It is not the case here though, the OP confirmed it is an overseas student paying overseas fees for (what seems to be) a medical degree. In which case I am not totally sure why PPs keep referring to vulnerable people from war torn countries open to exploitation. Overseas tuition fees for a medical degree start from £30K pa, with no loans available, and you have to show that you have funds for the duration of your course. Of course, someone paying that amount can still theoretically be vulnerable, but it is not like cooperating with the authorities in this case is equivalent to throwing them to sharks.

Yes you should report anyone you suspect to be illegal in terms of lacking a valid visa or violating the terms of a student visa.

Half my family are immigrants but we have always been legal. Many people don’t understand that the prejudice and violence we immigrants face is worsened by an environment allowing or helping illegal immigrants to stay in the country. The more secure the borders, the less race based and xenophobic violence occurs within the country. Look at the sanctuary cities in the US and their hate crime waves after being declared sanctuaries. That is our lived experience. Most of us legal immigrants do not like how the narrative about illegals drags us into the mix as justification to look the other way when confronted with illegal migrants. As proof that immigration is beneficial, as proof that immigrants are law abiding...legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are two completely different segments of society.

If someone has not gone through the legal process, there is a reason why and it is usually because they cannot get in legally or stay legally. It’s not lack of money because all refugees immigration processes & visas are FREE in both U.K. and US. If you are a real refugee, you pay nothing to be able to come and stay legally. Usually it is other things like a criminal record (not always violent- fraud will disqualify you), or applying for wrong visa (student when you plan to actually start a business), or tax evasion.

How are you supposed to know if they have the right to remain or a valid visa? Check their ID at the lecture theatre door?

This is preposterous. I would totally ignore it and feign
ignorance the immigration status of anyone whom you “should” be reporting.

Nah, bollocks to that shit - I'm into protecting children from violence, neglect or abuse, not putting them into the care system or being deported to a country they've never known because their Mum left their Dad due to violence without getting ILTR first.

Do you take a register? My husband is a University lecturer and they take a register at lectures and seminars. These are handed in and absences noted by the admissions departments with particular attention to overseas students. This is all he is required to do.

Overseas students also have to report four times a year for their university ID and passports to be checked off on a list. This is done by admin staff in various places around the university. These lists are then given to admissions and the international department.

That's it. No marching people off the premises, no kicking off. If any staff, academic or otherwise had suspicions (and it has happened) discreet enquiries are made.

OP am I right in thinking that the sort of situation you are asking about is something like if a student told you about another students immigration status and expected you to do something about it making it difficult for you to ignore as you would have the option of doing if it was a student confiding their own immigration status?
Personally I would tell the tattle tale that you are in no position to investigate a students immigration status or ask questions about it and unless there is solid evidence you can not take it further but signpost them to somewhere else they can take their concerns such as an admin department. I may also have a word with the student with a question over their status about being very discreet with such information were it to be correct although that would possibly be overstepping g the boundary. I’d consider contacting the union to see where you stand in relation to your job if you were found not to have reported to the correct people when suspicions were brought to your attention and also consult a solicitor about the legalities providing it is only a suspicion and not solid evidence.

If you have been provided solid evidence unfortunately I think you would have to take it further.

Can you be prosecuted for not complying? Can you lose your job? If so, then it's up to you to either comply with the order, or say you don't know about the status of your students (and if it can't be proved that you, in fact, know about their status then you should be fine). If you can be sanctioned for your actions one way or the other then it depends whether you wish to put your own livelihood on the line for those who have no right to be here. So which is it?

So, let me get this right. In theory I could walk into a place of education, attend lectures, be awarded a degree without a single piece of paper proving who I am or where I have come from, if I am legally allowed to be in the his country or indeed proof that I meet the academic requirements to even be on that course?

Definitely not - there are strict rules that higher and further education institutions have to follow in regards obtaining period of eligibility - including identify checks and academic checks - these apply to EVERYONE - if they don't follow these rules they lose funding.

Proof not period

If they are illegally here they need to leave! I wanted to live and work in the USA. There was no way for me to do it legally so I didn’t! Honestly. I’ve no issue with anyone who is here legally but illegally nope!

Hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil, do no evil.

Honestly, OP. How is anybody going to prove that you knew anything?

I suggest anyone who thinks this is fine should acquaint themselves with conditions in East Germany prior to the fall of the Wall. If that kind of society appeals to you, try North Korea. Although there you would be a foreigner on whom they wouldn't be keen.

I thought East Germany was trying to keep people IN?

I went to college as an immigrant in another country, I had to show all kinds of paperwork and proof before I could even register, nothing wrong with that. I was also paying for my education.
There was no way the lecturers knew my immigration status, the administration offices handled all that.
The lecturers just had the names on a list, called the register daily and handed it in to Admin.
I wouldn't worry too much about it, theres no way you know the legal status of your students, it's not yours to check it's the admissions office.

Surely it is student admissions that deal with visas etc. and eligibility to study in the UK.
However, I understand attendence is much more regulated, especially for overseas students.

I found the name thing interesting. Where I worked, there were many colleagues from overseas (some from the EU, some from outside of the EU). Quite a few would have an alternative name, especially the Chinese, who often had an alternative English name for use at work.
This is quite normal to me.
Ha, even some white British colleagues had different names to use, because they preferred their middle name, an alternative name, etc

I went to college as an immigrant in another country, I had to show all kinds of paperwork and proof before I could even register, nothing wrong with that. I was also paying

This is interesting because I am registered with a University in the same situation and rather to my surprise they have asked for no proof of my status at all.
I have had to provide large numbers of proofs of my academic history but they haven't asked for my passport or visa details.
It is a very reputable university that asked if I needed visa support and when I said no and told them my type of visa has asked nothing more.