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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To Finally Stick To Boundaries With My Mum

58 replies

poppycity · 03/10/2019 06:29

I need help. I'm just turning 40 and it's the first birthday where I've really looked at my life and realized there's things I'm painfully tired of, not wanting another decade to pass with the same hardships of the last 1/2 decades. There's lots of things I hope go better this decade (finances, one of my children's health) but the thing that grates me is my relationship with my Mum.

My Mum has never been easy, the things she said to me as a child I've come to see as an adult were terribly abusive. I was always in trouble for the smallest thing like a book out of place would result in her throwing out all my books or burning them. She would routinely tell me I ruined her life and it would have been better had I died at birth like her brother's baby, then say it's too bad we didn't swap. A small infraction like forgetting to double lock the back gate would result in hours of screaming, name calling etc. she would do this in front of anyone, neighbours, friends and family never seeing they thought she was unreasonable, not me.

What was most confusing as a child was there would be days/weeks like this, followed by good days. You'd just long for the good days and in some ways not hold her responsible for the bad days, knowing there was definitely something wrong. I knew this at a young age. Obviously as a child you can't really hold a parent responsible. But it was confusing. She could be loving and warm, offering good advice and being supportive, followed rapidly by wickedly cruel. Shame was her favourite tactic she would tell people I burned all my books and maybe there was something wrong with me. I didn't. I cried for weeks over those books.

As an adult much of this has continued but in some ways as she's getting older the bad days are more common. On the bad days she criticizes my parenting, throws out things that are important to me, shouts, name calls, says awful things about my DC typically phoning me to tell me just what she thinks of them. A recent example of this was her anger I didn't clean my freezer in the last month, followed soon after by anger my DC's forgot to wipe down the sink after using the loo at her place. No water is allowed to be used without wiping the sink/faucet after. It spiralled from there to telling me I always need rescuing, I'm weak and useless, no reasonable man would stay married to me, my children are filthy animals who are uncouth - this was said on the phone to me, she phoned 5x this evening saying the same kind of thing in different ways. This will likely go on for a few days, then she will be nice and maybe if I mention it as not okay, she will say something like if only I would learn how to be a civilized person she wouldn't constantly need to teach me right from wrong. I am turning 40 as mentioned, I have a profession, degree, two jobs, support my DC fully, my DC do well in school are busy and active with interests and sport, are good kids who their teachers and coaches speak very highly of. Yet all we get is criticism. Thankfully as of yet most of it is on the phone to me, but it's spilling over as my Mum ages and that also makes me need to make changes for my kids if not for me.

I think my biggest issue is I know why my Mum is like this, I understand she had a terrible childhood and I suspect strongly there's mental health factors at play. I do see that I trigger her issues but the smallest thing can do that, I'm always walking on egg shells and something as simple as my having coffee with a cousin can lead to her meltdowns, or leaving one thing out of place in my own home causes her such distress that she turns on me. She is relentless. She wants to hear me say I'm wrong and she's right and I will change.

I am a good daughter, she's now widowed after the death of my lovely Dad (who had a very hard time with her as well), and I pop in at least weekly, I pick up her tablets at the chemist, I take her out for coffee, often bring round meals. I will also do things like repair broken things, mend thing she can't etc. A counsellor once told me when I was seeing her to cope with one of my DC's serious illness that my Mum wants power, control and attention. Those make her feel safe and my attention diverted or my not doing what she wants like not cleaning the freezer out weekly, makes her lose her control and cause these behaviours. She obviously explained how unreasonable it is of her, that she needs other supports and possibly medications, but my Mum won't see anyone, nor speak to her GP, apparently had she had any other child in the world she'd be happy, but for some reason she was punished with me. That's the type of thing she says.

There are days she's loving and supportive, she can be lovely tbh but if I put a foot wrong or anyone in my family needs attention, she goes between being shouty and cruel or disappears. When my DC was diagnosed with a serious illness that will impact life expectancy, my Mum disappeared for weeks. Same when I had major surgery even though I'm a single parent. Not one offer of help, no meals, no asking how we were coping, nothing. Then tells me for months after she's so sick of my needing her to rescue me. I don't. And if I ever bring up how it would have been nice to have her visit, she says I make everything about me and she was very ill at the time and almost died. This is her standard line whenever anyone in our family has been ill or we've dealt with something serious. Apart from one fall she's as fit as a fiddle, always has been, is never ill and certainly doesn't almost die anytime we need support.

I'm exhausted by it all. I'm so exhausted by it. The never doing anything right, the walking on egg shells, the put downs, the name calling. The lies. I understand there are huge factors as to why. Many issues there. But I'm so tired of it all. The highs and lows, the phone calls with her screaming at the end of the line. I feel now my Dad has died she will need extra supports and caregiving and I don't know how to balance that with desperately needing less time with her. When I think about boundaries I want to stop staying at her home overnight (we usually do that 1x a month, something she requested to save us driving 30 minutes home. She suggests we all watch a film but honestly she always makes an excuse and goes to bed then phones me to complain when we leave telling me all the things my DC do wrong). I want to stop visiting at least once a week (I never know what mood she will be in or what I will do wrong, there's always something), stop having her visit my home as the DC find it very stressful and she finds things to pick on (she usually visits 1-2x a month for a day), stop answering the phone to her when she's having one of her episodes. Every Easter we visit extended family and my Mum pays for 4 nights in a cottage. It's always disastrous maybe 2 good days and 2 bad days, so I want to stand my ground and not do it anymore. The 2 bad days this Easter were awful, we were away from home and she's reliant on me for a lift, we were with her family (we rent a cottage near them) and she refused to talk to us for one day because I spent an evening with my cousin and her family instead of my Mum and the other two days did things like stick her tongue out, yell, get angry if I let the DC stay up since it was holiday time, shout at me in a restaurant that she wished she visited 'on my bloody own since this family is shite' . I could go on and on example after example. I have mostly been able to hide this from my DC but as they get older they witness more and their opinion of my Mum is that she's very difficult, unkind, embarrassing and mean, they don't usually want to invite her to anything. There is only so much one can hide.

Boundaries are so hard because I feel bad for her and because she can be lovely, as long as there's nothing triggering her and I don't 'need' attention. As long as the DC are perfect. They miss their grandad and I wish she could be a good grandparent, but she can't. She doesn't know how to connect all she does is quiz them on what they've eaten that day and what marks they have. Then she will yell at me later on the phone for 'messing up parenting, which it was obvious you'd be bad at'. She said that tonight because my child got 19/20 on a test and because they only had stew for dinner. Lovely hearty slow cooker stew I should add with all the food groups (beef, potatoes) and many veg (courgettes, carrots, peas, parsnip, tomatoes) as well as a teacake! They also had biscuits and satsumas at youth group. She shouted and shouted about the stew and how ridiculous I was as a parent and how it's not a proper meal?!

I need to change things. I know I need to see her monthly not weekly, in a neutral place, not invite her to things where she could have a meltdown. We need to have our own holidays (tough due to money, hence trying so hard to make the 4 days at Easter work, if we had money we'd rent out own cottage), I need to think about special days like Christmas from what we do and don't want to deal with, not just that she should be included at all costs, and mostly I need to not feel guilty. She's only a 30 minute drive so it's not too hard to pop in weekly, easy to help her with things like doing her washing which she finds challenging after her fall and take her to see the Consultant. But I'm no longer convinced this does anything but harm my mental health while appeasing my guilt. Just when I decided I can't continue in this way with our relationship she will be nice and I let my guard down and then a few days later the cycle continues.

How do you stick to boundaries even when someone can sometimes be nice? How do you stick to boundaries when you know the issue is their mental health and thus it isn't their fault? How do you do it for you and your DC without feeling like you are failing your parent/loved one? How do you put your own family first? I so want to be able to say my own family comes first, but right now I think I give my Mum too much space in our lives. I see now my Mum will never replace my Dad as a loving grandparent.

Posting late at night as my Mum was horrid on a phone call this evening and I haven't been able to sleep at all. Ridiculous I know. I just want to ring in this Birthday knowing this is the gift I'm giving to myself and my children. I want to start 40 with a commitment this changes now. I'm just scared I'm going to slip back due to guilt. After the last incident she told the children she was taking us all to America. Not only can she not afford that (not even for 1 person), but I'd never accept it and it would be disastrous. She does this after major episodes, like a way back in (not that her grand plans ever happen). I just want to have healthy boundaries where we don't come along for her highs and lows, we aren't in her path of meltdowns. I want to have a peaceful relationship that I don't have to continually recover from. I want to find a way to be kind but not give her enough time, access or knowledge of our lives that she can have this hold over us.

Sorry it's a novel.

OP posts:
Glitterpearl · 03/10/2019 08:05

I haven't read all the replies so sorry if this has already been said.

There may be reasons for her acting this way eg mental health issues, but that doesn't mean you have to accept it.

You went to counselling to get help to cope when your child was ill. I assume you did that so you could be a better parent to your children, by dealing with your mental health? Your mum could choose to do that. She could choose to get help for her issues but she doesn't. Her choice is to take all the worlds ills out on you.

You do not deserve this. Any of it. From your post I can tell that you know how she treats you isn't right, but I don't think you realise just how horrifically abusive she is, because this is your normal.

If a woman in the street came up to you and said even one of those things, would you then drive her around to appointments and see her every week? No you wouldn't. And your mum being family does not mean you have to accept it from her either.

I rarely advocate NC as it is extremely hard. But in your case, I think you have put up with this long enough and now you deserve a peaceful life with no more abuse.

I know you may think that your kids are somewhat protected but they will see and know more than you think. And it will be affecting them.

Go back to counselling and get support to realise the extent of what you have suffered and to set those boundaries and stick to them.

MzHz · 03/10/2019 08:27

What actions would you take if your mother treated one of your dc the way she treats you?

I’m guessing you’d need an alibi...

She’s evil. She’s not fit to parent a rock, let alone a wonderful human being like you.

Give yourself the best 40th birthday gift ever, your freedom from this tyranny.

Not a soul who knows you/her would have anything other than understanding and sympathy for YOU.

Go NC. You are worth better than this.

FWIW, being 40 is significant I think. I came to the same conclusion with my own mother about that age. I’m nc and have been for a number of years. It’s sad that I had to do it, and I do wobble and wonder sometimes, but then I remember that she hurt my little ds. I can’t let her back into my life.

Ohyesiam · 03/10/2019 08:34

Read Toxic Parents and withdraw from her.
Nothing will change, I fact it will get worse.
You have done really well in your life despite this horrible abusive childhood, be very proud. Flowers

Beamur · 03/10/2019 08:39

She sounds draining.
I've gone LC with my narcissistic Father. Life is much simpler. I am still in contact with him, but don't see him face to face and we don't speak on the phone. Email and cards. Email is infrequent and I refuse to be drawn into anything personal anymore.

ainsisoisje · 03/10/2019 08:57

Sorry you have this burden. You do not deserve this. You sound so compassionate and thoughtful and she’s lucky to have you. Burning books is not normal but then these mums have had some sort of trauma that seems to make normal interactions seem impossible. Do you have any support to help you distance yourself a bit (husband, counsellor Flowers

Coffeeandchocolate9 · 03/10/2019 09:44

I'm so sorry that you don't have the wonderful, kind, normal mother and childhood that every child has the right to. You deserved and still do deserve better.

You're not responsible for her feelings.

If it were me, I'd start with learning how to hold rock solid boundaries. Next time she criticises, shouts or anything tell her "Dont do that. I'm not going to put up with you talking to me like that any more, mum." and immediately hang up. Either switch your phone off, or if you're feeling strong enough if she calls back answer the phone with "are you calling to apologise?" And if the reply is anything other than yes, hang up. Repeat until you're tired and switch phone off/unplug from wall/block number. It's easiest over the phone or email than in person. If she comes to the house simply don't let her in. Be rude and shut the door on her (can you get one of those chain things?). She's been VERY, VERY rude to you for nearly 40 years, don't feel bad about hanging up or shutting the door on somebody who feels free to hurl abuse at you.

Please never, ever apologise to her again.

The truth is that she most likely won't change, and no contact would be healthiest for your and your children. But for your peace of mind it might be worth trying.

poppycity · 03/10/2019 12:39

Thank you everyone, I'm overwhelmed with your kindness, reassurance, advice and compassion. I will order the book and look for the Stately Homes thread. I can't say I fully see how bad our situation is, it still amazes me when I see friends' Mum's being respectful, kind, helpful, having boundaries, able to work through disagreements without going on the attack. But when I sit back and just think about all the things I've experienced, I can see it is so far from normal, okay, or what should be happening. This morning she rang to tell me she went round to her neighbours to tell them how bad I am and they told her she doesn't deserve to be stuck with a child like me. I know her long term neighbours and considering the things they've heard her say over the years, I know that isn't true. She then hung up before I had a chance to say anything.

I think ultimately I feel responsible for helping my Mum get into a better mood, without me she keeps herself very isolated. If there's somewhere she wants to go despite the bus going past her house she will only go if I take her. So I get into this trap of feeling responsible for helping her in hopes she is happier as a result and has a fuller life.

I would never allow anyone to treat my DC the way my Mum treats me, and yes one of the important reasons I reached out for counselling after my DC's diagnosis was not only wanting to make sure I dealt with my grief, but fear my anxieties and the trauma and stress we experience/experienced would impact my parenting. Perhaps I should go back to counselling to get support with this. It's been a few years now but I think I need help.

I can't imagine going NC. I also understand what I need she has never been able to be for me or my DC. And I don't need much. I'm imagining a few challenging days ahead with her getting angrier and angrier. But I'm going to try very hard to just take a few days away from talking to her to think about how to proceed. I just don't have the energy to listen to all the rants. It's like I've finally been hit by the train that is my Mum's behaviour. Funny enough she will not have said/done anything on my 40th and yet by not speaking to her today I will have ruined all her special plans for me. It's like a twisted alternative reality. I'm so in need of a break from it.

OP posts:
Crazzzycat · 03/10/2019 13:10

Your mother clearly doesn’t understand boundaries, so it’s unfortunately down to you to put some firm boundaries in place and make sure those are adhered to.

If I were you, I’d tell her how things are going to be done from now on: e.g. x number of visits a month, x number of phone calls, the types of conversations that are no longer acceptable etc. Explain to her that the next time she tries to put you/ your DC down you’ll put down the phone, or walk away. You could put all this in a letter if that’s easier? The key thing is that you stick to it religiously. That may mean that occasionally you’ll be walking away from her when you were originally planning to help her. That’s ok and not your fault. It’s HER fault for not respecting your needs.

The thing that struck me most about your first post was how many times you mentioned that your mother is “nice”. She really isn’t. She just uses being kind and nice as a way to manipulate you. It’s no excuse for how she treats you the rest of the time. You really deserve so much better than this 💐

BottleOfJameson · 03/10/2019 13:11

Jesus Christ why did you answer the phone 5 times to be insulted by this woman. You definitely need firm boundaries (if you want contact at all). Have you ever had counselling? It sounds very difficult to grow up like that.

Windydaysuponus · 03/10/2019 13:12

Would you accept your dc being bullied like you are?
You need to seek professional help in standing up to her op.

Crazzzycat · 03/10/2019 13:13

And here’s a link to the latest Stately Homes thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3677536-But-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-August-2019-onwards-thread

Come join us there if you want. For me, just knowing that there are others that totally get what I’m going through has made a big difference. You may find it helpful as well 🤗

BarbariansMum · 03/10/2019 13:35

From what you've said, I dont think you are (yet) in the right place to go nc with your mother. That's ok, it may come in time, or you may prefer low contact.

Perhaps you could start with the phone calls. How often do you see it's your mum calling and just choose to not answer it? How about choosing 3 days of the week when you do not deal with your mum and just not answer the phone to her on those days?

A second thing you could try is putting the phone down if she starts abusing you (and if you put it down refuse to answer it again that day). Either just ring off or, when she starts with some nastiness, say "got to go now mum, bye" and put it down immediately.

If you can start with some small steps, you may find the bigger ones come more easily.

BarbariansMum · 03/10/2019 13:36

To add: remember that all abusers are lovely some of the time- that's how they keep you around to abuse.

MrsNotNice · 03/10/2019 13:36

I’m so heart broken for you OP. It’s very harsh how your mum is treating you and you don’t deserve that. She sounds extremely lucky to have you as a daughter as you sound generous and kind. But unfortunately not everyone is born grateful.

R u an only child ?

Herocomplex · 03/10/2019 13:42

Go and have a look at the Out of The Fog website, while you’re waiting for the book.

No one should live like you are, you’re worth so much more.

Your 40th birthday is going to be incredible, it’s going to mark a whole new life. 💐

Herocomplex · 03/10/2019 13:42

And come to the Stately Homes thread, you’ll be welcomed with open arms.

Comtesse · 03/10/2019 15:30

My stomach hurt just reading your post never mind actually having to live with this for 40 years. Your mother is monstrous, she is probably unwell but why should you have to suffer? Toxic Parents will speak to you. Flowers to you

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 03/10/2019 15:41

You are not responsible for her happiness, @poppycity. You deserve so much better. You say you wouldn’t let anyone treat your children like this - you need to channel your inner, protective mother bear and protect yourself in exactly the same way you’d protect your children.

And you need to allow yourself to mourn your mother - the mother you should have had, because when you do accept that she will never be that mother, no matter how much you do or how careful you are, you will perceive it as a bereavement - the final loss of the loving mum you deserved and the dream of your mother becoming that mum.

There is a lot of support on here, and I am sending you loving thoughts and hugs.

smartiecake · 03/10/2019 16:03

Do you have any siblings? Does she have other family?
It certainly sounds like she could have MH issues and needs help.
You need to prioritise yourself and your children so as others have said. Stop going round to her house and stop taking the children. Do you have an answer service that you can let pick up her messages ? Caller ID?
Stop running errands for her and actually take a big step back. Protect yourself from her. And also dont agree to any joint holidays, xmas whatever. Just say you dont know yet if you dont feel you can tell her directly. Big big step back needed from her.

MrsNotNice · 03/10/2019 16:12

It’s so hard to understand how these relationship dynamics develop and how the abuser who was once a victim justifies it to themselves. It’s very difficult to absorb.

OP how do u respond when your mother unleashes all her abuse on u. Do you inform her that she is hurting your feelings and harming you? Or are you passive ?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 03/10/2019 16:18

@MrsNotNice - I would imagine that the abuse starts so early in childhood that the child simply doesn’t know any different - it is their normal. Plus they are utterly reliant on their parents for everything when they are little so can’t rock the boat. And they don’t have the vocabulary or the opportunity to tell anyone about it until they are older, by which time they are firmly mired in Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

Hadalifeonce · 03/10/2019 16:30

I am sorry, OP. I didn't even finish reading your original post before saying to myself if this was my mother, I would have no hesitation in never speaking to her again. BUT, I haven't been conditioned by her to try to please her or explain her appalling behaviour due to her childhood experiences, or even to wait for 'the good times' to return.

You have been programmed for years by this abusive woman.

You seem to be having counselling, your counsellor needs to teach you how to escape the abusive clutches of your mother; for the sake of your own mental health you need to leave this woman in the past, and concentrate on moving forward with your DC.

Craftycorvid · 03/10/2019 16:30

Yes: when we are small children, we are utterly dependent upon adult care-givers (regardless of how much ‘care’ they actually give). It’s far too dangerous to challenge abuse because who will look after us? We often become adults who struggle with boundaries and find it hard to say no, sometimes to recognise when we are in other abusive situations. Your mum is a deeply damaged person and you neither caused that nor have the power to change it. If you had a good experience of therapy, further work with a therapist who can work sensitively with your inner child and strengthen your adult self may be a great birthday present.

iwashappyonce · 03/10/2019 16:36

You say you don't want to go NC but sadly it sounds like that may be your only option with a parent that operates in the way your mother does.

She is not 'lovely' - she is manipulative and abusive.

You owe her nothing. Absolutely nothing.

meccacos2 · 03/10/2019 16:45

My sister is similar. She can go through periods of being utterly lovely then suddenly she’s yelling at me calling me lazy.

Screaming at me telling me I won’t cope when I have children. Berating me constantly.

When I stayed with her she would scream at me late at night to check on her child. Despite my already checking on her child and leaving the door open, she continued to yell at me.

She would constantly bring up my fertility (knowing I was sick and couldn’t have children).

When I did get pregnant she told me that I did it on purpose to trap my boyfriend and wouldn’t accept that was not the case.

Then she said I had multiple abortions (I have never had an abortion).

She said every single thing to upset me.

For the first time, I’ve walked away.

I feel such relief. I found that arguing with her would just make things worse.

It got to the point I thought she was enjoying my humiliation.

I don’t contact her unless it’s absolutely necessary and I won’t engage with her.

You need to pull back.

At what point will your mother say or do something so horrible that you will finally say enough?