Labour conference open borders and full votingrights

[Gin96]

AIBU to say i’m not sure I agree with this
amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/25/labour-members-back-motion-give-all-uk-residents-full-voting-rights

Well is it any great surprise from the Labour Party. If the vote doesn't go your way then you bully or manipulate the vote!

I think if the current shadow cabinet got into government then we will have open boarders to every uneducated individual who wants to love in state benefits as long as they are all allowed to vote....oh I guess which party they will vote for

Isn't it a little like the Blair government wanting to rub peoples noses in 'diversity' by opening to boarders to all new EU ascendents?

I was really considering voting Labour next time but this has put me right off.

I am a lifelong Labour member and voter and I think this motion is ridiculous, and risks damaging the party's short and medium term electability beyond repair.

There has to be some meaning to being a true citizen of a country and not just a resident. It involves belonging, a kind of social contract etc. Whatever the barriers and criteria are, once you meet them, you formally become that citizen.

Anything else is chaos because it is so fluid.

I really despise the current Labour leadership

But the current situation is also a farce, a citizen of Ghana or Australia, for example, who is a UK resident, can vote in UK national (general) elections but a citizen of France or Spain who is resident here cannot. And that's regardless of length of residence. So a French person who has lived here for 15 years and paid taxes and ni etc all that time cannot vote while an Australian or Ghanaian who has lived here for 6 months can.

Surely it's fairer to allow all residents a vote after a certain period of residence (eg 3 years or 5 years) rather than only allowing Commonwealth citizens a vote in national elections?

I agree, anyone who has lived here say 5 years or more should be given voting rights and right to reside in that country. You can’t have an open door policy to anyone and everyone though, it will be utter chaos.

What buttermilk said. Personally I would just scrap voting rights for resident Commonwealth nationals and leave it at that. I am an EU national in the UK and I don't expect to vote in UK General Elections, but it grates that a random Aussie could work here for 6 months, vote Leave and then walk away from the fallout while I as a 20 year resident and taxpayer don't get a say.

They are just making absoutely certain that they won't win and then have to sort out Brexit. Same old, same old!

I wish there was a decent party to vote for 😞

IIRC this was passed at conference when the MP's had all scuttled off back to Parliament when it was recalled (when the poroguing of it was ruled illegal).

Labour maintain that immigration is not a problem, the issue is purely structural, build more houses, schools, GP's etc but with totally open borders how could you ever keep up? We could never hope to meet any environmental targets. I for one don't want to live in a place with no green belt or parks . We are already a very densely populated island and have not been non self sufficient in food production since before WW2. A ot of UK land is not suitable for food production or house building. Most immigrants want to live in the cities, not in the Highlands. As a country all our institutions and jobs are too London based . Water per person will also become an issue and we can wave goodbye to state pensions and benefits. Highly diverse societies are not know for generous state welfare. If Labour think that it will "buy" them votes in perpetuity then look how Blair's policy worked? They will have no hope of putting the services that unfettered immigration requires (housing, health, language help to name a few).

I don't think any of the main parties want to curb immigration. I suppose the Tories have put in some roadblocks and talk tough on it (as they know they need to win votes and some people will hold their noses and go for them). Labour if they persist with open borders will lose. Remember how successive politicians said that very few people would choose to come to the UK when the EU opened up FOM for the accession states. How did that work out?... brexit

"Labour members have voted overwhelmingly to give full voting rights to all UK residents, committing the party to extend the franchise to millions of immigrants."

"As well as extending voting rights, the text commits a future Labour government to closing all immigration detention centres, ending “no recourse to public funds” policies and seeking to extend free movement rights to people around the world."

"The motion also opposed immigration systems based on a person’s income or “utility to big business”, and any caps or targets on the number of people moving to the UK."

Have they gone mad?

Like a lot of Labour policies, this one is actually inconsistent with EU membership. Citizen rights are standard across the whole EU and only citizens are permitted full voting rights in a country.

I’m glad i’m not the only one that thinks this is completely nuts

Surely they would put some conditions around it?

My husband is an EU citizen but a UK resident. He's been here 20 years, worked 20 years, paid tax, married to a British person, has British children, owns a house here, can vote in local elections but not general elections and was not given a say in the referendum. Both of which I don't think are fair. I dont think it's fair either if someone can come over here on a gap year and vote either. There should be a 5 year rule or something

@GettingABitDesperateNow

My husband is an EU citizen but a UK resident. He's been here 20 years, worked 20 years, paid tax, married to a British person, has British children, owns a house here, can vote in local elections but not general elections and was not given a say in the referendum. Both of which I don't think are fair. I dont think it's fair either if someone can come over here on a gap year and vote either. There should be a 5 year rule or something

Presume because he has the right to vote in his home country. He could take British citizenship and then vote if it mattered to him?

Well, I will now be voting Conservatives if we have a general election as this has left me no other choice 😞

I don't have a lot of sympathy for you if that's the conclusion you draw from this conversation.

Who else should I vote for? It is only the choice of Labour or Conservatives, the other parties don’t have a chance.

FFS, are they mad? I mean, surely they know that this will lose them more voters than it gains? It's like they don't want to govern.

@Baguetteaboutit Well yes. Some want to govern but the key leaders and the leader in particular have spent their lives protesting, including against Labour governments.

Added into consorting with terrorist groups they are never going to be elected.

However their luxuries mean we don't have any effective opposition at time of a national crisis. No wonder the Lib Dem's popularity is increasing as they are filling the gap

Lib Dems? On the other hand, the Conservatives have only presided over the deaths of people left impoverished by UC, done illegal arms deals with Saudi Arabia, unlawfully suspended Parliament and scuppered any hope of a deal with the EU, lied to the Queen, cut the police force by 20%, cut council funding more or less in half, slashed funding for the NHS and education - what's not to like?

the Conservatives have only presided over the deaths of people left impoverished by UC, done illegal arms deals with Saudi Arabia, unlawfully suspended Parliament and scuppered any hope of a deal with the EU, lied to the Queen, cut the police force by 20%, cut council funding more or less in half, slashed funding for the NHS and education

Exactly, they should lead with that, muppets.

I found this. It's a few years old but do we have actual evidence of Labour saying they will have an open borders immigration policy ?
I just don't believe anything I read in the right wing press these days as they will do anything to keep labour out of government.
I mean it would be political suicide to have that policy. As a staunch labour voter I wouldn't vote for them so why would they do that

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/06/labour-open-door-immigration-policy-nonsense-windrush-irish-migrants

I’m not a remainer so I can’t vote Lib Dems.

If this policy of Labour is correct I can’t vote for them - it’s absolute madness. I’m hoping it may be misreported.

I think people who are living here long term, working, contributing to the UK economically and socially, have at least as much right to a say in how the UK is governed as UK citizens living long-term overseas.

If not more right, actually.

My husband is an EU citizen but a UK resident. He's been here 20 years, worked 20 years, paid tax, married to a British person, has British children, owns a house here, can vote in local elections but not general elections and was not given a say in the referendum. Both of which I don't think are fair.

If he want's a vote, become a citizen, simple as. Life's not fair.