AIBU - child maintenance

[LatentPhase]

Ok so, I get it, you go on the Child Maintenance Calculator and the parent receives CM is the one who does the ‘care’

But with late teens, who is this? I think they sort of demand the same in each house.

OH re-negotiating with his ex. Kids are late teens. Pretty much exactly 50/50 care. Only difference is his ex buys updated school uniform and pays dinner money. Everything else is split down the middle - lifts, support, haircuts, parents eves, school support.

Calculator states OH should be paying £210 per month. This seems to not reflect the reality with kids at this stage.

AIBU?

£200 should be enough to cover school lunches £4 per day, shoes and uniform and school equipment, and pocket money and not much left over tbh...

Start paying less then half of school trips if you feel that strongly...

Eliza pancakes- yes?

It doesn't sound like it's genuinely 50/50 to me, certainly not financially if his ex is still bearing the major costs. Exactly how much time are they at their mothers in the holidays? There are iirc 13 weeks minimum of school holidays (plus inset days, bank holidays etc) - that's easily a quarter of the year they spend at their mothers/RP's.

"Mum earns significantly more than dad and always has." Irrelevant - they are both equally responsible for the costs of raising their (joint) children.

"Calculator states OH should be paying £210 per month. This seems to not reflect the reality with kids at this stage." Quite honestly you're right - but I suspect not in the way you're meaning. Teens are bloody expensive! £48 a week for two of them (the 18 year old may well still be counted if they're in non advanced education) is not really very much at all! And the cms calculation is a MINIMUM enforceable amount. It's a guide to a starting point really but unfortunately many nrps (and their new partners/wives) seem to think they shouldn't pay more than that.

I have an 18 almost 19 year old dd who is very slim and I actually recently (out of curiosity to settle a debate we were having ) did my online shop starting by only putting in the basket the items only she uses (so not even including items we both use) and was shocked to discover its around £35 a week!

So even based on that information she is likely spending at least £70 a week on groceries for them alone. Puts it into perspective doesn't it?

Even that £100 a month for dinner money seems a pretty low estimate - that's only £2.50 a day based on a 20 day month for 2? I'm pretty sure school lunch is more than that isn't it? Or is that only for 1 of them? Which ok the younger one is getting school lunch but the older one still needs a lunch too and if they're still counted for cm then £100 is low for lunches for 2 of them.

Uniform is really expensive!

"There is so much to costs for teenagers than what you've pointed out. mobile phones, pocket money, school trips, every day clothes, revision books, activities, driving lessons, exams fees and more I can't even think about." Totally agree with this too.

One major cost I can see swingofthings has forgotten (totally understandable not to remember it all off top of ones head) is transport - especially the 18 year old as they will be paying adult fares now but if they're not earning and still in non advanced education this can be a real problem.

"Uniform expenditure varies by year. This year amounted to a jumper! " do you really think uniform is only bought for start of school year? Certainly my dd outgrew most by the Feb half term!

"Plus shoes - of course" - again VERY expensive - especially if the school are strict about the type of shoe.

"I just think £210 plus child benefit seems a lot as a reflection of those things" do you have dc yourself op? You seem very unaware of the costs of children! It's really not very much at all!

All of the following need to be taken into account (and as per swingofthings quite possibly more! As its easy to forget and I'm out of the mindset of having a school aged child now)

So:

Rent - larger home to accommodate children = higher rent

Council tax - bigger house = higher rate council tax usually

Gas, electric and water - teens use a LOT of hot water and electricity!

Internet - no longer a luxury but really essential for household admin and education

Food/groceries - teens have bottomless stomachs! They need more calories than a grown adult as growth is at a peak at this age. Metabolism higher too. Then there's cleaning products and toiletries too.

Clothes - not just uniform but out of school clothes, shoes, coats etc

Leisure and recreation - it's an expensive age for this. Yes it's possible for them to do free/cheap things but it's not ideal

Furniture and soft furnishings - wear and tear, growth meaning items need to be upgraded/replaced - my dd took a hell of a stretch around 16 meaning she needed to move from a small single bed to a double, essential so she could sleep well. Bedding and towels need replacing regularly and teens really get through the towels in my experience so you need to have plenty.

Education - not just uniform but books and equipment too, especially with so many schools suffering badly from cuts. Stationery alone can be a considerable cost especially during exam years when they need to be making a lot of notes.

So do you REALLY think £48 a week for TWO children is too much? Honestly?

How much are YOUR living costs? Even groceries alone? Bet they're more than £24 a week!

Your “everything else is split down the middle” lists things which don’t cost money - like going to parents evening

What about EVERYTHING else? Who pays pocket money? Phones, clothes, etc...

As others have pointed out, covering lunch money for them both is not a small expense.

And although you want to say it’s 50/50, you say in the same sentence they’re with her more in the holidays. Are you really sure it’s 50/50 outside of the holidays? Given that weeks are an odd number of days long (so you can’t easily see it’s days 1,2,3 here and 4,5,6 there) and older children become a bit freer with days are sure it doesn’t just FEEL even when it isn’t? You can’t just ignore holidays.

Children are often more expensive in the holidays too - “mum, can I have £20 to go to the cinema and hang out with my mates?” etc.

Children are often more expensive in the holidays too - “mum, can I have £20 to go to the cinema and hang out with my mates?” etc.

Absolutely! I used to dread the summer holidays as dd got fsm and I struggled with the increase in outgoings on that alone plus keeping her amused and not missing out too much.

Who buys the clothes that aren’t uniform? Most things on your list you say are split don’t cost anything/much.

£210 a month for two children is £3.50 per day per child. That doesn’t sound like he’s overpaying.

I disagree it should cover rent, bills, internet etc as they are standard costs for most adults with or without children and both parents need a home for them not just one.

£210 extra for teens is a drop in the ocean! Especially when you consider she does uniform school food and more days during the holidays (especially expensive as feeding them min 3x a day plus entertainment)

Plus i highly doubt that at those ages it really is equal amount during the week at each other’s homes. They will have a preference for one and I suspect it’s the mother’s

She pays school dinner, uniforms including shoes (which can be realllly expensive) plus has them more often in the holidays. But around £3.50 a day per child for all that seems too much - is that right? I worked out the cost of a couple of pairs of school shoes, basic uniform and £4 a day on school dinners and I think it's about right. Can you do the actual calculations and see what you come to? My calculations don't eve include the extra time they are with her in the holidays.

Honestly she does not earn xcessively if she is still getting child benefit.

"I disagree it should cover rent, bills, internet etc as they are standard costs for most adults with or without children and both parents need a home for them not just one."

Perhaps wrt rent but gas/electric/water certainly is going to cost the rp/parent who has the DC most more than it does the nrp/parent with less care.

These costs aren't flat rate they vary according to use for most on mn (I'm in Scotland so water rates are closer to a flat rate system)

My dd definitely uses WAY more hot water and electricity than I do!

She was on holiday for just a week in the summer and I'm on a meter and wow! I really noticed the difference - and that was in the summer so no heating to account for!

Basically if dd wasn't living with me I'd spend only 40% of what I currently do on gas/electric!

Everything Graphista has said.

The money goes on his children remember.

Calculator states OH should be paying £210 per month. This seems to not reflect the reality with kids at this stage

Agreed. That is a pittance for 2 teenagers. Can only assume you don't have older children yourself OP or you would know this.

Ok so, each parent historically receives child benefit for one child each.
Neither dc has a social life to speak of (one very studious boy, one 18yo girl with anxiety - we are helping her with it and also helping her with education - no effort is made by DPs ex on this front - evidenced over the last four years. DP spending time/energy/money on that. No independent transport costs - school bus is rural and free.
Both parents buy clothes for the dc. The 18yo does earn some of her own money.
Strangely enough the ex is not the only one with a house and furniture and curtains and internet and heating costs (NB: they spend equal amounts of time in each home) DP also has a house and furniture! And heating costs. And internet costs! Of which DP’s could one could argue is the ‘primary internet connection - I wonder if I have invented a term - haha!!) - since the ds spends vast majority of school nights which is where and when homework takes place.... neither child receives pocket money. ho hum. And yep I have teens aged 14 and 16 and they are a whole other ball game as they do socialise lots and receive pocket money and use loads of toiletries. And get on trains. My arrangement with my ex reflects this. Oh well I think they will come to an agreement... was just wondering that’s all. Think the .gov.uk is a very blunt instrument which doesn’t acknowledge 50/50. Interesting. Thanks all!

Is she on her own OP?

Also DP drives the 18 to his work and employs her so she can do something productive and earn money. There is a lot more parenting of the older one and the younger one ticks over during the week under care of DP and spends time just EOW and most hols with his mum (where he is happy to stay at home unless the family go out for a meal). Anyways, they’ll hash it out. Just interested to hear about other 50/50 scenarios for teens.

If your DH has the younger one resident then the other parent should be paying maintenance for that child.

That’s totally different from the scenario in the OP suggesting he was NRP for both

Two mobile phones, depending on what they have, £60-100 a month.

Meals, £4 a day * 2 is £160 a month. So just adding these two and you get to £220 as minimum. So it sounds totally reasonable, especially if she pays for school uniforms too.

I think you are looking at it in a strange way. The default should be two people working it out amongst themselves - which it seems they are.

So the problem is?

CMS is used when it is controversial hence why there are arbritary rules applied

If the 18 year old is not in education and now working surely he is now only responsible for maintenance for the 15 year old so why are you working it out on two children?

"No independent transport costs - school bus is rural and free." Who said independent transport? Do they only go to school and nowhere else?

"NB: they spend equal amounts of time in each home" NOT what you said before and I suspect you're only changing it now to justify your stance on this.

I'm really not buying your apparent updates.

I think most respondents pointing out that actually the maintenance paid is nowhere close to half the costs of raising teens has influenced you to try and make out that care IS 50/50 when it was pretty clear from op and other earlier posts this wasn't the case.

Your having teens of your own and being separated from their father means you should really know better.

I don't think anything we say will actually change your mind and you will continue to resent the frankly paltry sum of money your oh pays towards the upkeep of his children.

I have a feeling you're a regular poster who's posted similarly before who receives no maintenance for their own teens and so resents that their oh does pay maintenance for their children.

I hope in real life you keep these thoughts to yourself. Your step children, oh and his ex don't need the stress of you questioning arrangements that aren't really any of your business and I cannot see any such discussion being conducive to good family relations.

Nope that’s not me, Graphista

Am just asking as he is looking at re-negotiating so I said look at the .gov calculator except that when we looked it seems to not take more of a 50/50 thing into account. And when you have teens you don’t have childcare and clubs and whatnot.

I’m leaving to him but just wondering what others think of they have a more equal arrangement with teens.