High earner leaving UK because of tax

[DonningDaFlameProof]

Hi all,

I'm well aware that I'm highly likely to be utterly slaughtered for this (thus the name change) but having read the thread about Corbyn and seeing several people saying that the theory that taxing high earners would make them leave the economy is a myth, I thought I'd share.

I'm British and was bought up on the breadline, went to state school, have a disability - just to pre-empt the "privileged" comments.

I started a business not that long ago (fortunately selling a service globally, and not registered in the UK as its main market is the Middle East) in the first few months it became obvious it was going to do well and I hired an accountant.

To cut a long story short, if I remained UK resident then my tax bill for my first year would have been approximately £120,000. This would have been just under half of the money I bought in.
Year 2 - tax bill would have been £230,000.

My family are not well off, so I was supporting a fair few people on this plus I started with nothing, so my first priority (after my family) was to save for a house as I was living in rented accomodation.

I am well aware that I am earning a high salary, and would never argue otherwise. But reading on here, people seem to think that a 6 figure salary means that you buy yachts for a laugh and eat diamonds for breakfast.

Good size family houses in my area started at about £500k.

For us, it made sense to move abroad for 5 years or so, save the money otherwise spent on tax, come back with that lump sum and buy a property outright.

And that's what we've done, it was insanely easy.

Now, the current plan is to come back to the UK in a few years time and settle down. We'll have a nice house then, and the tax bill we'll just suck up because we like the UK.

I keep seeing people harp on about raising taxes for the wealthy...if this happens, I know that we won't end up moving back. Because paying out half of my earnings is galling enough.

The top 10% of earners pay 60% of the tax bill.
The top 1% of earners pay 28%.

These people will also be privately funding their own medical care and schooling for their children. They'll also be heavily contributing in other taxes and of course pay VAT on the things they buy.

Raising taxes, abolishing private schools, penalising the wealthy in other ways is just going to drive them out of the country - leaving the tax pot far emptier, but the majority of people still relying on it.

AIBU to think that penalising the wealthy is not the solution?

So OP. If you calculated you’ve paid £32k in tax and even allowing for ‘historical adjustment’ of your school costs (although energy costs were very high historically but obviously not that high) looks like maybe you have contributed a bit towards the UK government portion of your school costs.

Of course, again you are neglecting all the infrastructure and other good bits a government has provided that that 32k has gone towards.

Everyone seems to have turned this into a debate about whether OP is morally right to leave the UK but that’s not their point. People WILL leave if taxes are too high.

It’s sad that people believe you should be trapped living in the UK

AlphaCharlieBravoDelta see my experience as a patient was positive. Appreciate you didn't have a good experience but you can hardly lambast the
the whole Nhs on the basis of that. Fact is repeated surveys indicated that people were on the whole satisfied. And sorry but your comment that socialism always fails is a bit crass - excessively libertarian

economics /trickle down wealth is also not that successful or beneficial to society either. I suspect a mixture of both is preferable. We can also thank
the labour party for minimum wage, sure start etc - not all bad

Sure companies and people will @Rhayader . But the whole point is that if the people (companies are driven by different motives) leave because of ‘higher taxes’ only, they probably have other issues behind their reasoning. And maybe they are not honest about it.

Yes, poor you @DonningDaFlameProof

This government have been shitting on middle and poor income families, and the disabled for the past 10 years whilst the top earning 3% quadrupled their wealth in the first 4 years.

And now people who will never have to worry about paying your bills are whinging about taxation?! And god forbid that they might need to contribute more? It's all me, me, me in the UK now and I'm sick of it.

Excuse me if my heart doesn't bleed

Winesalot

Whether or not this is true, it won’t help the countries bottom line!

@Rhayader.

True to a certain point. There is many others with high earning capacity who would like to come to the UK and will get here either via new business opportunities coming from that company leaving or if Brexit happens a selective visa process. So, yes and no.

No companies will want to come here if property rights are undermined by the government. It’s actually illegal under EU law for Corbyn/McDonnell to do what they are suggesting. Only very corrupt governments seize property.

People WILL leave if taxes are too high.
The greedy CFs with no sense of society might - good fucking riddance.

This is like when we have an election and some tosser of a celeb says they will leave if party X is elected - if you care so little for this country that you can't accept the choice of voters then we're better off without you.

Most people who piss off abroad from the UK tend to return in time for retirement because of the NHS and paying thousands of pounds a month for drugs associated with old age illnesses becomes untenable. Hopefully post brexit the rules behind returners will be stricter so free NHS for returners is off the table unless you have contributed their full tax contribution.

I'm still trying to work out how someone on the bread line wasnt getting child benefit? Wasnt it a universal benefit until a few years ago?

familycourtq

It’s fine to have that moral stance, but you have to realise that Labour’s very expensive domestic policy will not be possible. Benefits, the nhs, police etc will suffer as a result of lower tax receipts.

Many of those leaving will be doctors - loads already leave to go to Australia, NZ, USA etc. Consultants and GPs have stopped working extra shifts recently as the tax rules were changed for all high earners. Anyone earning over 150 has had their pension limit cap tapered, so someone earning 175k+ can only put 10k a year into their pension. Because nhs pensions are very generous this has led to some doctors having tax bills on their pension contributions in the tens of thousands. This change to tax rules for all high earners (not just doctors) has crippled the NHS as doctors cut the number of shifts that they do... It takes 18 years to train some specialities of doctors (from starting their degree to becoming a consultant).

I think for every person like you that justifies wanting to buy a £500k house outright as the reason you’re moving away, there’s another person like JK Rowling who can appreciate what high taxation can do for people that need it.

My primary feeling towards people like you - and sorry not sorry - is disgust. Go, Godspeed and good luck. I don’t care that the you’re going because you feel aggrieved you have to contribute more than you want.

Just don’t come back.

@Rhayader

Normally I would say that corbyn wouldnt be able to but now ... not so secure. Either way, it is likely he is posturing to test how much support he might get for such a platform. It is not likely that he will ever be to ‘seize’ private or trust owned property or companies in peace time.

I haven’t explained the nhs tax point very well but this article does www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-7228469/Doctors-revolt-pension-tax-rules-sparked-row.html

It’s fine to have that moral stance, but you have to realise that Labour’s very expensive domestic policy will not be possible.

Patronising response imho.

This is the kind of mantra we get from the Tories - but they seem to have found a magic money tree recently - why is it only a problem for Labour?

BTW I am aware of the pensions issue - that was just a piece of stupidity by HMRC and will be addressed soon.

familycourtq

I’m not sure why you think that? The government has proposed allowing doctors to lower their pension contributions but the BMA is not remotely happy with this. There have been no proposals to change the tax system as that would require primary legislation and would cost the treasury billions to implement because of other high earners.

Anyway, my point was that people (even good people like doctors) are incentivised by tax rules. When taxes are too high people change their behaviour, either working less or leaving the country all together.

Rhayader - Labour have said they will end the NHS pensions contribution tax, which was introduced under a Tory Govt.

I know a lot of Teachers and Doctors who have to go to NZ and Aus, marginal tax rates had nothing to do with it... lifestyle, weather, work life balance.

When it comes to having lower tax receipts, Brexit will achieve that comfortably and ensure the better educated (who generally speaking never wanted it) will consider leaving UK.

It also want hmrc. The cap was introduced by Gordon Brown and the taper was introduced by George Osborne.

jasjas1973

The tax is for all high earners, not just NHS....

This is such a shitty attitude to the country that funded you when you needed it, and to those less fortunate than you who need the help now. Having received a state education yourself is by no means an excuse for refusing to fund others. I know people who came from poor backgrounds and are now better off, they've not all become shitty right wing cunts who want to trample on others now that they've made it - it's not compulsory. I hope you're not eligible for NHS care when you return.

I attended a private school, so yes, I have to put up with the judgement of others for something I didn't choose. Wish we could reserve the judgement for those who are shitty human beings who would dodge tax and take state support away from those who need it. We've always paid tax on our incomes, and yes, it took a years to save up for a deposit on a mortgaged flat. That's normal - no excuse to dodge tax.

Labour have said they will end the NHS pensions contribution tax, which was introduced under a Tory Govt.

It was Gordon Brown who started the tax hits on big pensions - after all, we have to "tax the rich" don't we??

I know but it seems to have had a huge effect within the NHS, which skim reading through the thread is the concern.

Aside, Labour will be pragmatic, just as the tories won't introduce a retirement age of 75 (an idea from ian duncan smith) Labour won't have a rental right to buy.