Am I overthinking having a baby?

[Seedling111]

NC because I know people on here and I don't want them to find my other posts!

I am 33 and my boyfriend of three years is 38. We have a very solid relationship, and he's a good guy, very respectful and loving, pulls his weight around the house, supportive, etc. He loves children and is a godfather to two, I know he'd make a great dad. I'm the one dragging my feet a little, and it's because there are a few things playing on mind I hope you can help with. Mainly I'm thinking about a lot of things because my own dear mum got severely burned by my dad, so I want to make sure I don't end up in a sticky situation.

1. He doesn't like the concept of marriage, and I'm not bothered. I am the higher earner by far and work from home, he's not good with money and our finances are separate except for a shared account we each pay the rent and bills into - would not being married if we have a baby cause issues down the line, or would it actually serve to protect me if needed later down the line?

2. We live in his home country in western Europe, but there's a chance I would like to move back to the UK in 6/7/8 years. He says he's up for that, but I'm just thinking ahead for every eventuality: if he changes his mind on that and we have a baby, would I be unable to leave the country and go back home?

3. I have scoliosis in my lower back and it causes me a little pain. Would that make pregnancy/epidural tricky?

I am a worrier by nature, I don't know if I'm overthinking this or asking the right questions, but any input would be appreciated.

The most important thing to do, especially if you're the higher earner, is to marry before you have a child.

The most important thing to do, especially if you're the higher earner, is to marry before you have a child.

Why? Can you explain? I don't dispute it - I just don't understand but would like to.

he's not good with money

What does this mean? I know this sounds boring as hell but if he's not reliable, can't plan ahead, relies on others to sort things out for him .. he won't make a good co-parent.

And what is it about the idea of marriage that he doesn't like? The lifelong commitment? The financial ties? The whole idea of tying his life together with another person's? If it's any of these then parenthood may not be for him either.

I would research the laws in the country where you live in terms of the financial implications of not being married and what would happen if you wished to return home with your baby. Realistically, I would not have a child with someone who wasn't as responsible as I am with finances and with whom I had had very extensive discussions with about the future.

I live in the UK (which is not my home country) because my dh is British. We discussed what we wanted for our lives in extensive detail before we got married/had dc. We had the same values and ideals in terms of work and money and have a very egalitarian relationship (he is the higher earner but actually works shorter hours to pick up more of the childcare in many ways because my work requires more travel). We were also very clear about where we wanted to live and raise children. There has never been a question of me returning to my home country. I moved here permanently and I will become a citizen in a few months (finally). Even if we had a horrible nasty divorce, I would never had any interest in moving back to my home country.

Scoliosis, I don't know much about, but pregnancy can cause low back and pelvic pain. I found swimming, yoga, and osteopath treatment helped a lot. You don't 'need' an epidural (I've had two babies without any pain relief and it was absolutely fine), but if it's a deal breaker, I'd discuss it with your doctor first.

I'm afraid I don't have any answers, but to me your questions sound absolutely valid and no, I don't think you are being unreasonable by asking them. You sound like you have your head screwed on.

The most important thing to do, especially if you're the higher earner, is to marry before you have a child.

If you're the higher earner with separate finances then it's in your interest NOT to marry. But of course also depends on if you are planning to take a career break, to take care of the joint child.

Yes, if you have a child in another country and the child grows up there, and you then want to leave with your child against the wishes of the other parent, you will likely have challenges taking the child out of their habitual residence country. You yourself can leave, of course.

You sound incredibly sensible for thinking ahead, your points are all significant.

Your DP's issues with money would on ern me; does just tend to spend too much on frivolous things, or is he on debt and struggles to budget?

I wouldn't want to have a family with someone who wasn't as responsible as myself, to echo a PP.

If you are the higher earner marriage isn’t nearly so important (in fact, it probably wouldn’t help you!).
If you bring up a child partially in one country then want to move to another, especially if the ‘home’ parent is the main carer I imagine it might cause difficulties if you split. Maybe seek some advice about this. Probably not legally binding as such but might help practically to have a cohabitation/parenting agreement you both sign up to about what you would do in different scenarios.

1. It depends if you plan to give up work or go part time after the baby is born. If the answer is no then stay unmarried and keep your finances separate.

2. This is a valid worry. A friend of mine has two DC in Australia, would love to come home to the UK and isn't allowed to as her ex won't agree. Maybe research the laws of the country you live in.

3. I have a friend with scoliosis, she had no problems in pregnancy but was advised against having an epidural so she had just gas and air. Painful - but not a reason not to have kids IMO.

The second one would be my biggest worry in your situation because there are laws around needing permission from the other parent to move children out of the country.

Would it be an option to look at moving back to the UK sooner rather than after having a baby?

Given the spectre of Brexit and no one knowing what will unfold, I'd be having my baby in the UK, making sure the baby had UK citizenchip.

Given the spectre of Brexit and no one knowing what will unfold, I'd be having my baby in the UK, making sure the baby had UK citizenchip.

That's a really good point actually, plus is may be harder for you to move back with your partner after Brexit if you're unmarried and he's not a British national.

I think the issue of you living in a different country is the biggest concern, imo. Depending on the laws, you might be stuck there unless you leave your child behind, which for me would be unthinkable.

2. is the biggest concern for me too. You would need his permission to take the child/ren back to the UK and you'd be screwed if he didn't want to. Would you be happy to keep living where you are even as a single parent?

I wouldn't be settling down with someone who I didn't trust with money, and am already planning how to leave

On the contrary I'd commend you for thinking so much about it. Go in eyes wide open as much as possible. There are countless women who end up berating themselves, bitter because they didn't consider things as much as you are doing.

In the event of a split marriage or otherwise think carefully about your 2nd point. Without his agreement you couldn't just up sticks and move away with the baby. Things are good now, but should a split further down the line become acrimonious you're staying put if you have a baby with him in that country.

As you are the higher earner by some margin then I wouldn't be too concerned about marriage in that regard. It's a contract, not a lovey/dovey affair. Sorry if that makes me sound po-faced but it is what it is.

In the UK, it protects the lower earner to be married especially if they give up work or reduce hours etc to look after the kids.

If you are planning on returning to work after maternity leave and are likely to always be the higher earner then it protects you more not to be married.

You are right in that most countries where children are born and have that nationality, it is difficult for a parent to move country with the children without the other parents permission. But without knowing what country you are in, no one can advise, it is possible in some countries it may make a difference what surname the children have and if their parents are married for example.

I would also be worried about him being bad with money. It's one thing watching someone piss their own money away every month, it's another to watch them piss money away that should be spent on your children so you end up having to use all your own personal savings for maternity leave, and everything for the children, while he spends his disposable income on having fun himself. I think you need a chat about finances and how it will work in practice before TTC

Thank you for your replies!

I think the "bad with money" line was a poor turn of phrase to be honest. He's not frittering it away or drinking it down the drain, it's just that he set up a small local company and refuses to think bigger, so it will always be just a small local company that just about breaks even. That's not a crime, but it means he has less money than he could have. He's also badly organised and a procrastinator, which I am too, so I totally empathise with him. But because he has less income, he takes a harder hit when it comes to things like paying late fees and penalties etc. To be honest, keeping our finances separate, it doesn't bother me. As I say he's not selfish or reckless with it, he just doesn't make very much, and then makes that worse by not dealing with stuff as it arises. He would definitely be coughing up for his child. I think I would not want to marry, so this situation should be fine.

The second point is indeed the biggest worry, especially with Brexit. I have two issues, one is that I cannot trust him to not change his mind, and secondly, I cant trust myself not to change MY mind. I have always been "nomadic" and have a difficult time seeing myself sticking in any one place. He could easily decide not to go to the UK, equally I could decide to go back to the UK and change my mind again 3 years later.

Obviously this is completely not a reason to have a child but I know having kids can change people for the better, and I do wonder if, if we DID have a child, it would make him a bit more organised and me a bit less flitty.

Equally I could just wait it out, but I'll be honest, I can completely see myself waking up at 45 having flitted around and nothing has really changed, except I've missed the window to have a child.

I need to think about it all more, I looked into the "going abroad with a child" legislation where I am, and the law here is absolutely not favourable to doing that, which is understandable. Also, as I say, he loves children and really wants kids. I can practically guarantee that he would be really hands on and theres no way in hell he would ever give his permission for me to leave.

On the plus side (and this is really outing), where I live now is in the countryside outside a Eurostar station. If we did have a child, and we did split, I could move to the "Eurostar city" and possibly having a double life going back and forth between this country and the UK could actually not only work, but might be the only solution that could satisfy my craving for going back and forth, with or without a child.

This is so thinking far ahead, I know! But to a PP, it's not about me planning to leave him, it's about me planning ahead for the worst case scenario - because most of the relationships around me I've seen fail, because people change, priorities change, lives happen, and I'd hate to be 35 with a toddler stuck in another country and unable to leave, all because of "love".

Having kids doesn't cure you of being disorganized.
Tbh if I was you I would be worried about the fact that you are the main earner, he's disorganised and unreliable. You will have to go to work and he'll still be unreliable and disorganized and you will be working full time and doing everything at home too.
Believe me, there's nothing more eye opening than having a child with someone and then finding out they are not much help.
If it's France/Spain/Portugal/Italy/ Germany you can't leave unless you have his permission to take the child. If you do it you can be stopped at the border and it's kidnapping.

and theres no way in hell he would ever give his permission for me to leave.

This is the biggest bone of contention. Whatever the legislation broadly says, i.e. if both parents are in agreement then the child could in theory be 'inter-continental'. But if one parent says "No". That's that, no legislation will permit you to 'take the baby' away without an agreement in place which might prove nigh on impossible should you have an acrimonious split.

Think of the worst case scenario. And if you can deal with it then so be it. If not then consider your position further. No amount of promises from him today will count for anything 3 years down the line.

All that said, you've been together for three years and as you say have a solid relationship so don't do yourself the disservice of not doing anything for fear of the worst. In your position marriage isn't important (at the moment) as you're the higher earner, but it will become increasingly important in terms of wills, pensions etc... as I said it is a contract. So think carefully about that too.

Thank you @VladmirsPoutine you've given me loads to think about.