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Greta pt 2 - not all about her - well, duh!

82 replies

onalongsabbatical · 25/09/2019 08:34

Whooa I did not stay on top of this thread but it seems to have generated a great debate so let's keep it going. Of course it's not all about Greta, but talk about climate change and environmentalism. She's a catalyst. Like Joan of Arc was a catalyst in French politics, but who remembers the French politics of the early fifteenth century, tell me that? It's big names and stories that get us talking, so thanks Greta and I'm firmly in your corner.

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 11:14

What you said
So you’re fine for both to have impact

Trewser · 25/09/2019 11:16

No, I said that Blue Planet certainly had the MOST impact on single use plastics being shunned. I don't think single use plastics is part of GTs agenda is it? I am not sure single use plastics contribute to climate change?

onalongsabbatical · 25/09/2019 11:20

The litter picture - I wonder who looks at it and thinks - that woman is my sister? Here it is again. Try looking at it as if it was your sister, daughter, or mother. Or yourself.

Greta pt 2 - not all about her - well, duh!
OP posts:
Trewser · 25/09/2019 11:22

yes I've seen lots of distressing images of rubbish and single use plastics - the bird with hundreds of pieces of plastic in its stomach for a start. But I am not sure rubbish directly contributes to climate change?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 25/09/2019 11:23

Why is it either or? Blue Planet exists so strikes / Greta go away Did anyone say that? Or are posters just pointing out that for many people watching on GT is not the next Joan of Arc etc. Don't pin your hopes on her... and keep your fingers crossed she survives all of this intact!

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 11:29

Absolutely not pinning all hopes on her - and dismiss any moans she should be doing everything

CuriousaboutSamphire · 25/09/2019 11:51

Sorry @Marsha, I meant vous rather than tu - people in general, and here, seem to be determined to have her hagiographied whilst still alive - see comments re Joan of Arc, here and across all media!

WallyWallyWally · 25/09/2019 11:53

I am interested in hearing more from Wally about these long haul flights it’s fine to take

Huh? When did I mention long-haul flights?

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 11:56

Oh so some changes in buying do help?

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 11:57

I thought it was all marketing to the gullible mc there for a minute

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 12:00

You did actually mention staycations though which implies no flying

Trewser · 25/09/2019 12:01

Either my phone is playing up or marsha is having a conversation that only she can hear.

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 12:02

Ffs don’t make me copy and paste

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 12:03

In a bloody shop need to do stuff

Wally wanged in about stats being created as pure marketing to get people to stay home

Trewser · 25/09/2019 12:03

Sorry Grin

MarshaBradyo · 25/09/2019 12:03

Accepted Grin

grumiosmum · 25/09/2019 13:00
  1. the costs of NOT tackling climate change will be much higher than the costs of doing something about it - Stern report
  2. the IPCC report is unequivocal - climate change is caused y rising CO2 due to manmade activities.
BottleBeach · 25/09/2019 13:06

@Floisme - on the issue of historical climate change - this illustrates, broadly, how the climate of our planet has changed over time:

xkcd.com/1732/?fbclid=IwAR3rKN0WBURwuC53AghYUuBNpWiqy92wsX7ZikneHclKxa7UsVJb2K3O1hc

PineapplePower · 25/09/2019 13:25

There was a time when western countries were the biggest polluters and these currently developing countries were barely polluting at all

I think the PP meant that the socialist economies of China and Soviet Russia were horrific on the environment. Believe there is a gas pit that has been on fire for decades somewhere in Central Asia due to a botched Russian mining operation. China is not really socialist anymore, however.

Anyway, I’m against socialist reorientation of our current system, as I believe (with justification) that is will only make us poorer, and thus, less well-equipped to deal with climate change.

Floisme · 25/09/2019 13:44

Thanks Bottle I'll take a look.

There was a time when western countries were the biggest polluters and these currently developing countries were barely polluting at all. Some of their governments now feel its unfair that they would have to limit their output for a problem that was started elsewhere.

This reminds me of something a CO2 sceptic (not a climate change denier - the two get conflated and I think it's lazy) said to me when I was sounding off as I am wont to do.

The gist of it was, 'if you live in a developing country, access to cheaper power isn't about nice holidays and running two cars. It's about life and death. Are you going to be the one to tell them they can't use fossil fuels?'

It shut me up I can tell you.

DoctorAllcome · 25/09/2019 14:01

This has nothing to do with the fact they (China, Venezuela) are socialist and everything to do with the fact they are developing industrial countries.

Er no. That’s not the case at all. When the means of production is owned by the State, the State has a disincentive to regulate anything thar makes production more expensive to include emissions, labor conditions, prices, etc. In addition when the means of production and the actual GDP it generates is owned by the State, there is little to no incentive for innovation because there is no reward. Over time, inefficiencies build up that lead to resource waste which leads to more cost cutting which leads to hyper inflation, food shortages, worse working conditions and nonexistant environmental protections.
China is no longer a developing country and hasn’t been for decades. Nor is Venezuela...although socialism has set them back really badly. Nor was the USSR.

DoctorAllcome · 25/09/2019 14:20

@MarshaBradyo
I did mention long haul flights as generally being less CO2 than making the same journey by ferry, train or car. Which is true. It is easy to look up which model and make of plane flies a route, then look up its CO2 emission per Km. You can similarly look up ferry boats and their Diesel engines and get CO2 per nautical mile & number passengers. Cars also you can look up by make, model and year to get the CO2 per km or mile. The only reason why GTs sail to NY was less CO2 was because she was on a high tech, solar powered yacht owned and captained by a Monaco prince. If she’d hopped on a regular ship, it would have been more. I calculate my trips to find out which is lowest CO2 and long haul flights are often the lowest.

I was also saying it in context of not taking the trip at all is best. That’s businesses need to only take essential trips...use Skype FaceTime vtcs instead.

I also said if we as a society can eliminate working in offices and have no commute, no rush hour that will make a bigger difference than sacrificing an annual long haul vacation.

Air miles is only 2% but road miles is 16.5% of CO2 emissions per the WHO. www.who.int/sustainable-development/transport/health-risks/climate-impacts/en/

Spinderellacutituponetime · 25/09/2019 14:30

Written by Greta on her FB page:
''Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.

In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.

When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.

Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.

My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.

And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.

Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.

Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.

There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.

And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( www.ted.com/…/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_…/up-next ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.

And thank you everyone for you kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor has anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised and I have accepted their apology.''

BottleBeach · 25/09/2019 15:41

@Trewser- yes I've seen lots of distressing images of rubbish and single use plastics - the bird with hundreds of pieces of plastic in its stomach for a start. But I am not sure rubbish directly contributes to climate change?

It doesn’t directly contribute. But it is inescapable evidence of the amount of ‘stuff’ that we are consuming and disposing of. And the harvesting, manufacturing, packaging and distribution of all that stuff uses methods which do contribute to climate change. It is all part of a toxic system.

Floisme · 25/09/2019 18:51

That's weird - the thread vanished on my phone and I though it had been zapped.

Anyway ona if it was me I'd go for as much realism as possible so that it looks as if there's a real spider crawling up your torso. So my pick would be this
Or if you wanted something with a bit more finesse, maybe something like this
I realise this might not be what you had in mind Grin But I don't mind spiders, provided they're not poisonous.

The IPPC - I know what they say and, until recently that was enough for me. But, as I understand it, they don't do their own research and what I'm trying to do is get to grips with what the scientists themselves say. I realise that sounds arrogant and paranoid in equal measure but hey, that's me. I'm also looking for knitting patterns for a tin foil hat if anyone's seen one.

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