To have my doubts about some counsellors....

[RagBagMag]

Both I and DH have had some bad experiences with counsellors in the past, and at the time we just put it down to one of those things/a clash of personalities.

However, as time has gone on, I've heard of various friends and acquaintances going on to retrain as counsellors (our local further education college runs a course) and, to be honest, almost every single one of them has been a very troubled person, with plenty of ongoing issues of their own.

I can see how this may be beneficial- an ex addict, for example, will probably have an extra set of knowledge and skills as a drugs counsellor - but surely in a general sense this is a bit worrying? I've briefly looked at the course, and I'm not sure of the ins and outs of it, but it doesn't seem to be university standard, yet the students will be dealing with people with huge and serious problems.

Now a relative has declared her intention to enrol on one of these courses, and honestly the thought of her being in that position of power over vulnerable people is terrifying. She was the school bully, and continues to try to bully and control the people around her, she struggled to function normally, which results in the borderline emotional neglect of her children. She'll absolutely love hearing people's problems and she'll 100% dictate to them and repeat certain things to her family and friends.

AIBU to think courses like this sometimes attract a certain kind of person? Perhaps it's unfair of me, because I'm sure there are plenty of brilliant ones out there, but the prospect of encountering someone like that as my counsellor would put me off looking for that sort of help if I'm honest

I think the problem is that "counsellor" isn't a protected term like midwife or doctor. I could set myself up tomorrow in my spare room and advertise myself as a counsellor and that wouldn't be illegal.

I also think that having counselling or seeing a therapist is currently very fashionable. Lots of people are leaping on the "I'm a counsellor and a life coach" bandwagon, and clients who are in a vulnerable place are being conned into seeing them.

If you think you need to see a counsellor, get recommendations from your GP or from a professional organisation, not from a friend.

Really Otra? So you don't need any sort of course or qualification at all? That's terrifying.

I also think that having counselling or seeing a therapist is currently very fashionable
There is quite a bit of overlap in the roles of therapists and counselors as both help patients in overcoming emotional and behavioral problems but therapy is a treatment procedure whereas counseling is more of a listening/advice session to help patients make behavioral changes.
A therapist can work as a counselor, but it is impossible for a counselor to perform the role of a therapist without more in-depth, specialist study.
I totally identify with the points the Op makes, but please OtraCosaMariposa, don’t include properly registered therapists, who will be trained to at least Masters level in their speciality.

Yes, Otra is absolutely right, counselling is not regulated or protected in the UK. Those offering counselling services are a mixed bag, ranging from the highly skilled to the incompetent and downright dangerous. There are also a variety of underlying theories and approaches to counselling, some of which have little or none empirical backing.

Some counsellors can make a highly positive difference to the lives of some people. But it isn't a magic-bullet solution all of the time, and sometimes counselling can do a lot of long-term damage (which isn't always instantly apparent).

I think the problem is that "counsellor" isn't a protected term like midwife or doctor. I could set myself up tomorrow in my spare room and advertise myself as a counsellor and that wouldn't be illegal.

TBF one of my siblings is a doctor and is every bit as bullying, controlling and unpleasant as the person pp describes.

I know what you mean, I've seen some people become counsellors who I know to be bullies themselves. Mind you, I've also seen people train as nurses and midwives who have no sort of empathy or compassion, and people become teachers who seem to actively hate children, and particularly children from difficult backgrounds.

I do look at these people and wonder what on earth goes through their heads...

It's similar to all the parents of bullies who share anti bullying stories on social media and say that their heart is broken and how can the parents allow it...

I’ve said on MN before - and I always get shot down- is that counselling is like selling snake oil. Anyone can set up shop and charge silly money to “help” people. Counselling as pp have said is an unregulated “profession”. I have colleagues that describe themselves as counsellors. Their lives are a train wreck. IMO, they think that because they have lived through drama that somehow they can sort other people’s lives out. Nope.

but please OtraCosaMariposa, don’t include properly registered therapists, who will be trained to at least Masters level in their speciality.

Absolutely not! There are excellent therapists and counsellors and no doubt they help an awful lot of people. Problem is, when you're in a vulnerable position and trying to find someone to help, is differentiating between the person with the raft of qualifications and experience and the person who has only the other day decided to become a counsellor and who has dozens of their own issues.

Yes, the people I know also tend to be the sort that share vague pictures of wolves on FB with "I've lived through some shit" type captions and have lots of ongoing dramas in their lives.

I totally identify with the points the Op makes, but please OtraCosaMariposa, don’t include properly registered therapists, who will be trained to at least Masters level in their speciality.

You do know that therapist/psychotherapist isn’t a protected title either - there’s no legal minimum standard of training for counsellors or therapists despite what UKCP or other registering bodies might want you to believe.

Add into the mix that BACP have launched new under grad diploma level qualifications for counsellors and you could end up seeing someone who this time last year was selling insurance, did a course and now thinks they know what they’re doing.

There are a few things to look for, firstly level of training, I’d be looking for Masters level qualification in counselling/psychotherapy. I’d also be looking to see where their experience lies - there’s a massive difference between someone with 5 years experience seeing 2 clients a week and someone with two years experience working full time. Do they have a specialism and what is it - what additional training and experience do they have. Are they registered and who with. When all is said and done the relationship is hey so if you don’t click with them, don’t work with them, if something feels “off” don’t stay.

As someone who has benefitted greatly from therapy I have to defend the good counsellors out there. The British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy provide a list of accredited therapist with details of their experience and expertise so it's not some random bods setting themselves up as 'experts'. I think the key is to interview your therapist before embarking on any long term therapy as it's as much about your relationship with the therapist as the process itself. Also, in my experience, a good therapist doesn't tell you what to do. The process is to open your eyes to any behaviours from other people or yourself that isn't helpful or productive.

Unfortunately you don't get a choice of therapist on the NHS and CBT is usually offered which may not be appropriate for some people.

Having said that, I went to couples counselling with my ex-husband and felt completely worked over by her as she believed his manipulation and was not backward in telling me my 'faults' which was not helpful.

On the other hand, having had issues in your own life may predispose you to want to "pay back" by helping other people ... whereas if you've never experienced major mental distress, you may be more of the "counselling is a lot of mumbo-jumbo" frame of mind and less likely to want to become one yourself. Wild generalisation I know!

isabellarossignol yes to teachers who hate children of different backgrounds! I met one of those during the summer. She spoke with utter disgust about a child in her class who was statemented and had learning difficulties. She seemed to take it as a personal insult that he couldn't spell. It was as though the last decade of inclusion and SEN awareness in schools had totally passed her by. I was genuinely speechless, it was like talking to someone who had just landed on this planet. Sorry, bit off topic but your comment reminded me of her!

I should also have said someone who has been in long term therapy themselves - precisely because our lives can be a train wreck at times. It’s not that counsellors will never have challenges or problems, but they very much should be able to keep themselves reasonably stable or take time off work. They also really need to have worked through their own “shit” and know themselves really well - I wouldn’t see anyone who hadn’t had their own therapy over a period of years.

Absolutely.

My partner went for counselling to help her deal with childhood abuse and having no understanding of boundaries. The (female) counsellor seduced her and ended up breaking her heart... some are just plain dodgy.

If I was looking for therapy I’d just pay the extra to see a psychologist. At least you know they’ve trained to doctoral level so aren’t con artists.
That said, a few of my friends have trained to be psychotherapists and have masters in it, so aren’t quacks and are well trained. It seems hard to weed out the the good trained counsellors from the dangerous untrained ones. And if you’re messing with people’s mental health then you should be highly trained. A diploma that’s not even undergrad level for a year just doesn’t provide that. Something should really be done this, particularly as mental health is so on topic at the moment.

I can see the logic there jellycat...sadly self awareness is not a strong point for the person I know...

but therapy is a treatment procedure whereas counseling is more of a listening/advice session to help patients make behavioral changes.

You can’t claim that, there’s no such set definitions.

The lack of regulation is a concern though. Funny you’ve started this thread when a BBC documentary is due out.

If I was looking for therapy I’d just pay the extra to see a psychologist. At least you know they’ve trained to doctoral level so aren’t con artists.

Did you mean psychiatrist?

Is anyone thinking about when Jez from Peep Show became a life coach (after discovering its not a protected term) and ended up shagging the patients?

Although I was also told ( by friend who did masters in it so clearly knowledgeable) that sometimes a patient won’t engage with counselling and this is their fault apparently, not the counsellors, as it ‘just isn’t the right time for them to deal with their problems’ and ‘they’re not in the right head space’?!
This sounds like a massive cop out and failure to take any responsibility IMO. If it’s true, I’m hoping it’s not.

@boptist no I mean psychologist. Clinical or Counselling. Have to do a practitioner doctorate to practice as one.

If I was looking for therapy I’d just pay the extra to see a psychologist
Some of the worst practitioners I know are psychologists - depending on where their experience lies they may not have a huge amount of practice under their belt. I know Educational psychologists who literally never actually see children - in the role they are in their assessments are paper based, I would choose a well trained, experienced therapist over a psychologist.

I agree with you OP. All the people I know who have trained as counsellors strike me as not being suitable.

If I needed counselling/therapy I'd chose a clinical Psychologist if possible and suitable.

If you're looking for a counsellor..
I would only see someone who you've checked is BABCP /UKCP registered...

One year FE level courses are just not enough.

Any 'proper' psychologists (psychologist alone isn't a protected title) who are Clinical psychologist, counselling psychologists (which is a legally protected title) will now (since about 1990s) be Dr X, and must be registered with HCPC in the UK.

Wheb you see ANY psychologist /therapist /counsellor I'd check personally with the organisations - ring them directly to check Dr X is who they say they are...