Should the CMS be better organised?

[TheMustressMhor]

It seems that people who are trying to get CMS from absent partners are getting the run-around and receiving very little money.

Is your partner refusing to pay? Do you trust the Child Maintenance Service or are they a joke?

I'm thinking back to when my Ex-H refused to pay anything for our DC.

CMS came up with a figure but he wouldn't pay.

We ended up with nothing.

They are a joke. Given the powers they already have they do absolutely nothing

You're right lyralalala.

My Ex was ordered to pay a certain amount and eventually he started to claim benefits.

After that I got £7 a week. For two DC.

And that's after he didn't pay a penny for four years.

No back-dating for him. The DC suffer.

And I know countless women (and one man) who have received absolutely nothing in maintenance.

The CMS don't pursue non-payers.

They do seem to take a ridiculously long time to action anything! It’s taken 6 years with the Csa and I believe 18 months with CMS for them to write off £16k in debt and start pursuing a liability order!
Not bad for a man who has paid exactly £0 and never sees his child. Joke!

They definitely don’t care about non payers and do nothing to chase it up. There is literally no consequences of not paying maintenance. My ex doesn’t have to pay because he is on pip, so he literally doesn’t have to pay.

They are crap!!! As other PPs have said, they take no action against parents who don't pay. I've not received a penny in over 3 years and still get texts from them as if I'm actually getting any money. He owes me thousands in back payments from the old system. I'd like to see a system like in the US where they can be sent to prison for non payment.

It’s not just the CMS- it’s the whole attitude to child support. I’m on another thread right now where a single mum trying to get back into work is being told the childcare costs are her problem, not her ex’s. I mean, what??

There needs to be a huge overhaul in the child support system but there is no desire for that in government because guess who benefits when child support isn’t paid? Men. That’s who.

I didn't get a penny and now they have written off the debt. My children grew up in poverty with a stressed single parent.

Not only that but they sent me a bill for their services. I had to see a solicitor to get that sorted out.

its crap for everyone involved. Dp has been both the paying and the receiving parent and its been horrendous throughout.

Nobody seems to know what they're doing, you get different information from different people, letters are frequently late, or don't turn up at all.

They don't seem to do much about non payment, make no effort to close loopholes.

The whole system needs overhauling, but like I said on a different thread I think the reason it hasn't been is because it would be very hard to come up with a system which is "fair" which also has the power to take action on non payment, and can be rolled out on the scale of the CMS.

I disagree this is a male/female issue. I am a man but my sister and nieces have suffered due to their deadbeat father dodging the CMS (and the CSA it's been so long). I have lobbied my MP and the then government minister, one Maria Miller who had the audacity to give a radio interview when she stated that basically if deadbeat parents (and I accept it's usually Dads) are determined not to pay, there isn't much they can do.

It's an awful situation but blaming all men won't help.

It needs society to demand change.

It needs people to stop voting for crap Tories like Maria Miller.

But the CMS are utter utter shite.

I disagree this is a male/female issue.

basically if deadbeat parents (and I accept it's usually Dads) are determined not to pay, there isn't much they can do.

It's an awful situation but blaming all men won't help.

No one did that.

Maria Miller who had the audacity to give a radio interview when she stated that basically if deadbeat parents (and I accept it's usually Dads) are determined not to pay, there isn't much they can do.

The ridiculous thing that people like Maria Miller don't seem to realise is that CMS already have significant powers.

They can attach a DOE, or take money from bank, building society or post office accounts as a one off or regular payment, without even going to court. They have the powers to do this.

If they do go to court they have the power to put a charge on a house, order the sale of a house, seize goods (send in the baliffs), remove a driving license and ultimately apply for a prison sentence.

If they go to court for a liability order they can also register the debt on people's credit record - a power that I think would be a great tool to persuade payment if they'd only bloody use it!

The issue is that there is no political will to chase up these payments and until such times as there is nothing will change.

If they do go to court they have the power to put a charge on a house, order the sale of a house, seize goods (send in the bailiffs), remove a driving license and ultimately apply for a prison sentence

putting charges on a house is only any use if the parent owns a house, a lot don't. A lot will co own with new partners, and putting a charge on a co owned house wouldn't be allowed (rightly) and same for the contents in it.

As for driving licenses, personally I think this is counter productive. Without a driving licence, many people would lose their job, or have to get a lower paying job etc, which would mean lower or no maintenance payments anyway. it could also mean less access, and whilst some RPs would be thrilled about that, its not beneficial for the child.

Same for prison sentences, and TBH I think we should prioritise imprisoning actual criminals before we start focusing on estranged parents.

However I DO think that payments should be taken like a tax from a wage for everyone as standard, I think that would help, and wouldn't be that hard. If you paid anyway, you wouldn't have a problem with it.

I wrote a letter to the government minister in charge of this, here, in part, was their response.

It can be difficult to get a small minority of parents with complex incomes to comply
with their responsibilities to their children. This Department’s new compliance and
arrears strategy includes proposed changes to make sure more parents meet their
obligations to pay for their children, and targets known loopholes. This is in addition
to working more closely with HM Revenue and Customs and dedicating more
resources to the Child Maintenance Service’s specialist Financial Investigation Unit.
However, the Service cannot force paying parents to remain in work or in a
particular employment. There are some paying parents who are so determined to
avoid their responsibility pay for their children that they are willing to continually
move from job to job. These are difficult cases for the Service to pursue. It will
however use every power at its disposal to persuade those who use this tactic to
pay for their children.

Which in short says they can't do anything about it. Just great.

putting charges on a house is only any use if the parent owns a house, a lot don't. A lot will co own with new partners, and putting a charge on a co owned house wouldn't be allowed (rightly) and same for the contents in it.

As for driving licenses, personally I think this is counter productive. Without a driving licence, many people would lose their job, or have to get a lower paying job etc, which would mean lower or no maintenance payments anyway. it could also mean less access, and whilst some RPs would be thrilled about that, its not beneficial for the child.

Same for prison sentences, and TBH I think we should prioritise imprisoning actual criminals before we start focusing on estranged parents.

The point is though that if NRPs thought for a second there was any chance they'd end up with a charge on their house, or at risk of losing their driving license, it would much less likely to get to that point.

As it is at the moment they know there is no chance the CMS will use those powers so there is no risk to not paying.

The risk to their job with the driving license is a good example - my ex wouldn't pay. He was a nightmare. Right up until the point that I contacted the welfare unit (he's military). The first hint of any risk to his job saw him pay up, pay his arrears, and never miss a payment after. From everything I've learned since then this is relatively common in that area.

So genuine threats to non payers work. There wouldn't be thousands and thousands of deadbeat parents ending up in prison because they wouldn't let it get that far. Whereas at the moment there is no incentive to pay because they know these powers mean nothing.

That said the number one thing that would change non-payment imo is the attitude of others.

If it was socially unacceptable less would do it.

If it made them undateable they wouldn't do it.

If their parents were openly ashamed of them they wouldn't do it.

Until the "well she'll just use the money to get her hair and nails done so I don't blame him" attitude disappears, especially from other women, nothing will change.

However I DO think that payments should be taken like a tax from a wage for everyone as standard

Yup!

@Jaffacakesaremyfave
"I'd like to see a system like in the US where they can be sent to prison for non payment."
I agree. I think that there should also be other rules:

1. The person who has to pay maintenance, if employed, should not be allowed to go self-employed until period of maintenance payments has ceased.

1. If self-employed at the point a maintenance order is made, once the initial amount is set, if should never be able to be reduced. (That way it would prevent investment in assets that would reduce profits).

3. Payments to be increased each year by rate of inflation.

4. All minimum payments to be determined by CMS and preferably all administered by Attachment of earnings.

5. Any who wish to pay over and above can do so to payee's bank account but system would at least ensure every order was paid at the basic level.

6. Anyone who quits their job/gives employer undue cause to sack them whilst a CMS order is in force goes to prison if maintenance ceases to be paid.

7. Anyone who fails to pay maintenance is not allowed to see their children.

Where a PP stated their ex doesn't pay because they are in receipt of PIP - doesn't this mean they have a physical or mental disability? Those in receipt have to have an income of a certain amount so if they gave to pay any maintenance then their money (ESA or UC) would just have to be topped up to that level. In effect, taxpayers would be paying it rather than the ex.

The point is though that if NRPs thought for a second there was any chance they'd end up with a charge on their house, or at risk of losing their driving license, it would much less likely to get to that point

I think a lot of people who clearly don't give a shit about their children, also don't give a shit about a lot of other things. This wouldn't have bothered my dad, for instance, who never paid. He didn't own a house, he would have said his GF owned everything (and how do you prove otherwise) - he would have happily given up his licence and probably been fine with a stretch inside, because he just did not care.

It might work for some people, but not all, and for the people they did prosecute, the RP still wouldn't get any maintenance anyway, so who does it actually benefit?

If it was socially unacceptable less would do it

true, but we are so stuck in our 1950s attitude that I don't think this will happen for a very long time, although I agree it is what needs to happen.

If it made them undateable they wouldn't do it

yep, again true. I personally wouldn't date someone who didn't pay for their children, but equally I think a lot of people get into relationships and wouldn't even know this until months even years had gone by, and then its much harder to leave. Not an excuse, but I think that's what happens.

If their parents were openly ashamed of them they wouldn't do it

I imagine a lot don't know.

Until the "well she'll just use the money to get her hair and nails done so I don't blame him" attitude disappears, especially from other women, nothing will change

the thing is, this does happen. Its not most women, its probably a very small minority, but it does happen. Some women are just as bad as some men when it comes to giving a shit about their kids rather than themselves.

Before they had their big change over from CSA to CMS they were useless and the only difference now is that I have to pay them a fee

7) Anyone who fails to pay maintenance is not allowed to see their children

access is for the benefit of the child, not to punish the NRP. This will, quite rightly, never be implemented.

If their parents were openly ashamed of them they wouldn't do it

I imagine a lot don't know.

Yup. My ex pays nothing. (Doesn’t see DC either through his own choice) I see his mother, father, siblings regularly. They’ve never asked me anything about whether he pays child support. I suspect they know he doesn’t but just don’t want to know for sure. But he’s an accomplished liar so who knows what he’s told them.

My exes parents are dead so there is no one to judge him. He also doesn’t see my children so again stopping access wouldn’t effect him, he also doesn’t own a house or have a driving license or passport. I don’t know what the answer is, I would like prison for non payers but know that won’t happen. Nothing will and he knows that which is why he gets away with it