AIBU to B amazed at how many people still don't seem to have a clue about antibiotics?

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Talking a work colleague the other day... I happened to mention that I have a heavy cold/sore throat. He said "Oh, I have some antibiotics if you want them". Turned out he'd been prescribed them for something a few months ago, took them for a few days, felt better, stopped taking them and kept them in case he needed them for something else.

I pointed out that you're meant to finish the whole course, you can't just keep some for later; you also can't really just give prescription medicine to other people, and anyway it was unlikely that they'd work on a cold.

Several other colleagues were there. One agreed with me, one basically seemed to be hearing this for the first time, and the other two thought there was nothing wrong with what he was doing and "they're way too fussy about antibiotics now, they used to hand them out all the time and it was fine".

AIBU to be quite shocked that so many people (all well-educated, all have lived here for years ago so shouldn't have missed the campaigns) were blatantly not that fussed about casually taking antibiotics? I'm religious about finishing the course, not taking them unless I need to etc, and I assumed most people were too.

I get that there are bigger issues with antibiotic resistance (farming etc) but still, it's important to do what we can. And you should never hand out drugs to someone else or take them from them!

‘People need to be able to self medicate

I work in IT sales. My medical knowledge comes from Dr Google/ER/Casualty and House.

Of course I shouldn’t be allowed free access to prescription drugs to self medicate.

I work with a woman who goes to the GP almost monthly for something or other asking for ABs. Colds, coughs, aches and pains. Everything.

@TheDarkPassenger

I agree with you but also do what he does. I only take them until I feel my own body taking over, never finish the full course ever, because of AR

Can I please try to politely get you to understand how what you are doing is causing antibiotic resistance and beg you to reconsider? I'm qualified in the field of medicine resistance - not antibiotics, but same principals.

So your body gets attacked with bacteria. We'll simplify and say there are 10,000 bacterium in your ear that shouldn't be there and are causing infection. Your body is fighting it but can't overpower this one by itself before scarring and deafness occurs. No problem, you get a 5 day course of antibiotics!

Not all 10,000 bacterium are equally as strong. The first 3,000 are really weak and killed straight away after day 1. The other 7,000 would all be killed by the end of day 5, but since you feel better and stop taking them on day 4, you've not yet killed the strongest 500. Your body might well overcome the infection, but those 500 reproduce and survive in the environment and go on to infect somebody else. By only killing off the weakest, you've sped up the survival of the fittest principal.

The offspring from a "breeding pool" of weak, middle and strong bacteria is susceptible to antibiotics.

The offspring from a breeding pool of only strong bacteria is much, much less susceptible to antibiotics.

We aren't getting new antibiotics, because drugs companies can see that any new drug would be expensive to make and due to numerous factors develop a resistance problem very quickly. It's simply not economical to develop them.

We NEED to preserve the effectiveness of the antibiotics that we have. That means only using them when really needed, and taking the full dose.

I genuinely hope that my post is interesting to you and that you consider taking the full dose. My system doesn't like me taking antibiotics either. It's perfectly acceptable and understandable to be reluctant to take them, but please if you do, take the full course. FWIW taking pre and probiotics during and after I take them really helps me.

Please please don’t share your antibiotics with someone else
Its incredibly dangerous.
You have no idea if they’re allergic to those or the other person may be taking another drug / have a medical condition which you mustn’t take that particular antibiotic with

There’s many different types of antibiotic out there let the doctor decide what’s best for each individual

I see I've cross posted with your latest post - sorry!

@Coffeeandchocolate9

Thanks for the info, I read up about it earlier in the thread but you did explain better than the stuff I read on google!!

I do try my best for society and everyone around me but sometimes I just gotta do what I feel is right for me, I’m far from perfect but I’ve got a good heart! (Even if my physical heart is probably going to fail and kill me 🙊)

If you want an idea of how important antibiotics are dig out your copies of James Herriot.

He practiced before and after antibiotics. His description of trying to save animals with useless remedies and failing is heartbreaking. In the books the absolute joy later on at being able to save patients with one injection is tangible. Patients that would have suffered and died anyway.

Human medicine would have been much the same. Death and disability wiped out.

Can you imagine if someone developed a course of pills that would cure the majority of cancers-especially childhood cancers. That would have been the effect antibiotics had on the population when they were first developed.

People take ab’s very much for granted. People die without them.

One of my best friends takes her kids to the doc at the first sign of a sniffle expecting AB's.
My 55 year old aunty has an old pack of AB's in the cupboard, and if her DD gets 'tonsilitis' she gives her one and apparently it's gone!
(Her and her husband also have self diagnosed arthritis and medicate themselves with Tumeric)

They also self diagnose as having salmonella if they ever have the shits...

“I do try my best for society and everyone around me but sometimes I just gotta do what I feel is right for me, I’m far from perfect but I’ve got a good heart!”

But what @Coffeeandchocolate9 has just marvellously explained (and thank you for that) what feels right for you could end up killing people...

Dh's df used to live in India and there you can buy and prescription drug over the counter at the pharmacy. I know people who used to stock up on antibiotics and painkillers plus things like diazepam. Crazy.

We've already entered into the world of superbugs, people are already dying from infections that previously would have been treatable.

New antibiotics are v. rare and drug companies don't invest in RnD as there isn't the money it.

AB use in agriculture is a big culprit but reading through some of these posts, one has to question whether some posters have any intelligence whatsoever.

I thought this stuff was common knowledge, its been on the news enough times but probably hasn't been debated on Love Island, so that could be the reason?

I agree. A friend I'd thought was very intelligent 'shared' hers with her partner then wondered why her chest infection wouldn't clear up. She was mystified when I said you need to finish the course....

We've already entered into the world of superbugs, people are already dying from infections that previously would have been treatable.

The knock-on effect will be that a lot of surgery will become impossible because the risk of acquiring an infection will be too great. So no replacement knees, for example. And we will see the return of puerperal fever.

I have to agree, even my own usually intelligent husband is a complete twat about antibiotics. Everything I or our toddler gets can apparently be sorted out by getting antibiotics! I keep saying that it depends if it's viral or bacterial but he just ignores me. Very stupid and annoying.

I’m a nurse, so know plenty about antibiotics, but in fairness, I don’t think I would otherwise. There have only in the past few years been public information campaigns about them. What does frustrate me though is that I tell my friends all this stuff and they don’t believe me!

How can anyone NOT know they have to finish the course. Whenever I have been prescribed antibiotics (not often and ALWAYS because the GP says I need them... I don’t ask for them) the GP has emphasised the importance of finishing the course and then the pharmacist (various pharmacies) emphasises the importance AND it is on the label on the packaging. If you can hear and/or read you have no excuse.

@BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou exactly! I honestly think my colleague just thinks he knows better than the GP, that the GP is over the top and just "going by the book". I don't know how anyone with reasonable intelligence, who watches TV and at least vaguely follows the news, could not know that: you have to finish the course, antibiotics don't work on colds, and you shouldn't give prescription medicine to other people!

LaBelleSauvage Googling often comes up with an answer that is incorrect for the region or for the condition, or that is incorrect because of the other conditions that patient has. And sometimes there are other patient factors that would contraindicate the use of one or the other (those that cause c diff etc being avoided more in the elderly) which doesn't pop up on a google search.

I'm not arguing with the premise - I certainly don't believe in unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics. However, to answer your question, lawyers dealing with medical negligence cases do have to acquire a working knowledge of such issues. Typically this is done by reading the case law to point you in the right direction but of course using an internet search engine such as google to look up some academic articles published in medical journals, preferably two or three on the same subject to give a decent overview. You would also try to find written evidence of clinical guidelines/best practice. I don't find these particularly hard to either find or understand. Obviously, you make sure that your sources are as up to date as possible and well cited in medical textbooks. So yes, when I did this type of work I did have some medical textbooks as well as medicine and the law type textbooks. And then will use an expert witness, but you do need a working knowledge of the main issues. You do also need to be aware of the individual proclivities of the client/patient in question. The rule in medical negligence cases is that you take your victim as you find them ie if the client/patient has some unusual condition or sensitivity, this is not a defence to an action of medical negligence. Obviously, we are aware that there are regional variations.

The point being that not only doctors are aware of these factors. They are standard factors that apply across the whole ambit of medical care that a number of people must make themselves aware of, not just doctors.

Its also fairly well known that there are regional variations in standards of care. There are also certain cities/areas that struggle to recruit medical personnel where I would certainly try to avoid being treated! There is a lot of medical negligence out there. Most doctors, etc are absolutely excellent but there are a lot of mistakes/not paying attention, and much of it does seem to affect middle aged women who are all too frequently dismissed. I sometimes get the impression with some doctors that they treat an imaginary, fictitious, standard patient, rather than paying attention to the actual patient who presents in front of them. That can be very dangerous.

I hope I don't sound too critical of GPs. I shared a flat at uni with medics and still socialise with a lot of them. They all went into hospital work instead of GP.

Antibiotic resistance is one of the biggest threats to humanity in modern times.

This. People are obsessed with the oncoming mass extinction caused by climate change but seem to ignore this. I think we will start to die out in huge numbers because of AR long before. I’d be dead now if it wasn’t for antibiotics. I’m young, fit and in very good general health. Some scary stuff on this thread. Perhaps GPs just aren’t explaining to people how to take them correctly?

My doctors won’t prescribe antibiotics for my recurring UTI’s even after they have done a dip test and they know I have a UTI. They like to them send my sample to the hospital for further testing. Then around 2 weeks later, I get a text from my pharmacy to pick up my prescription! (By then I have got a pharmacist to dip test a sample and required antibiotics for it)
I can’t even get in to be seen by a doctor to discuss the cause of the recurrent UTI’s. I think that I either have to live with the recurring UTI’s, or have my coil removed as I’m thinking that is possibly a trigger. But I can’t see a doctor to discuss it or have my coil removed. The NHS has gone to shit, I feel like removing myself from my GP practice as they are not even helping me in the slightest.

People passing round antibiotics, or wanting to self-medicate, is crazy. My mother was rushed to hospital in an ambulance after taking prescribed penicillin. Turns out she had a massive allergic reaction to it. We never know how our bodies will react; sensitivities develop and reactions might change over time. As AlansLeftMoob said, it's a russian roulette risk. No doctor is perfect but we have to trust them; i imagine lots of people don't know the difference between a virus and bacteria.

I also want to bang my head against the wall when people go to the gp and beg for abs (and unfortunately get them) after having the sniffles for a day or similar.

Interestingly though, new research shows the "finish the course" rule was wrong. Actually that may be contributing to AR.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/26/rule-patients-must-finish-antibiotics-course-wrong-study-says

‘Antibiotic resistance is one of the biggest threats to humanity in modern times.’

This!!! I keep telling my friends that this is how the human race will end and it will happen well before climate change takes it toll. They think I’m being dramatic, I assume this is because it’s not publicised the way climate change is.

I'm not trying to be goady here but those who are saying AR will be the end of the human race, I dont understand how. I know if can and will cause deaths, which is obviously bad, but would it wipe out the whole species?
The human race survived (as a whole) before antibiotics were invented and wild species survive without antibiotics.
Is it because the bacteria will be "stronger " so our immune systems won't be able to fight them off either?

My sister gets cold sores. It took me a lot of explaining to get her to understand that her husbands leftover amoxycillin wouldn't do anything for her when she had a flare up.
If people just read the leaflet that comes in the box then it says everything they need to know.