To wonder if school children understand the concept of a (climate) strike

[lemonsandlimes123]

Watching the news coverage of the climate strike today I can't help but think a couple of major points are not being addressed.

Firstly it is not exactly difficult to motivate thousands of children to effectively take a day off school! I have seen journalists pondering why it has been so well supported and I can't help thinking the answer is somewhat obvious, most kids like a day off school.

Secondly i understand the concept of a strike as a political action to be one of removing your labour to effect those who may profit from your labour. The accompanying loss of wages also means that there is cost to the striker that shows a certain commitment to the cause. The idea of school children striking when in fact in a school they are the beneficiaries of the labours of others strikes me as somewhat backwards. By not attending school they are only reducing their own education which seems rather self defeating IMO.

So whilst I think it's great that people are engaged I do feel the whole walking out of school business probably has more impact on the numbers participating than the actual cause.

I would be more interested seeing numbers on a saturday too.

I do know some impassioned kids who have made their own choices, such as eating less meat and reducing water consumption. However i know some not in the least eco friendly who just enjoyed a day off school. One of whom wont even make tiny changes like turning off lights and not running the tap while teeth cleaning!

Asking the kids how they've reduced is a good idea. Or how they can help their family reduce.

“These are probably”. So you’re basing this nasty attitude on no knowledge at all of the actual people involved. No. My kids don’t have it all. It’s kind of patronising that you think ‘working class’ kids aren’t educated or sensible enough to be on the strike. Look globally. The kids striking are not all privileged.

This is why our planet is buggered. People who criticise anyone who is trying to change things for the better. For the good of others really. It’s not these ‘rich kids who have it all but want a day off school’ who will be suffering the direct consequences of climate change.

So what are you doing about it? You’re up there criticising others who are trying. You must be doing something better then, to feel you can criticise such ‘meagre’ efforts.

Or as a pp said - let’s make the changes as adults. And not leave the kids to clear up our selfish mess

Slightly off topic but not IYSWIM ... something I've noticed in the 18-30 group (so I guess the demographic pushing for change) when I eat out. Practically every table in a pub/restaurant-Cafè i go in these days will have at least one person who thinks nothing of leaving half a plate of food, half a glass of drink, ordering extra sides and not then eating them.

Aside from the waste of £ (and I get it's their money to waste but didn't they get the memo about the value of £?) and waste of food (I'll admit i judge people who waste food, it's a disgustingly entitled trait) I wonder if they connect the dots of the carbon footprint of food production to their plate? So by wasting it they've increased their footprint for nothing. It's the everyday habits we change which add to make a big difference but that isn't as interesting on Instagram I guess.

I’m really surprised and concerned about the number of posters who seem to think that only people who live perfect off grid life are allowed to raise their voices and demand that action be taken to stave off the worst of the shit that is coming upon us.

Why on earth do you think that these people are not making changes in their life? But the whole point is that climate change is not a niche issue, it affects everyone, all across the globe, and there’s not lots of difference people can make individually. We need systemic change, change of paradigm and putting pressure on politicians and businesses is the only way this will happen.

My family do what they can but also we drive a car because we can’t get everywhere we need to go due to shit and expensive public transport, and cycling in my city with small children is fraught with peril. I also fly a few times a year to see my family and for business and I really don’t think this disqualifies me from being very concerned about the future of my children’s survival on this planet and I will damn right protest and support these kids campaigning for action.

What do I do I do about it. Walk a lot more, look at how I shop, look at ways to use and conserve my energy. I'm far from perfect and I have never claimeded to be. You mention working class people, they are more prone to give their children all the consumables they desire. Us adults are solely responsible for the shit we are in today because it has been in the public domain for 20+ years thatwe have a climate problem. What have we done, answers on a postcard.

Intrigued re your obsession against the organisers Xmas, you’re posting about little else.🤔

My 18-year-old daughter agonised about missing an important lesson that she REALLY didn't want to miss. She decided not to go to the strike, but then changed her mind, as she feels so strongly about this issue, and feels she needs to support the strike. She was upset in the evening about missing the class.

This is the most important issue of our time, and, increasingly, young people are aware of it. I admire the passion and commitment of many of the young people I saw on the strike today. Obviously 5 year olds don't really know what is going on, and primary school kids might just be enjoying time off school, but to the young adults I know, the strike represents a significant sacrifice and is a measure of their terror over the future of people on earth.

the Proposed Citizens assembly replacing the government as the main governing body of the uk

Communism writ large. But hey, it's exactly the sort of thing children should be marching (and taking mandated school trips) to support.

A cause is not rendered good simply because young people are passionate about it. I say again there good reasons why children do not have the vote, that is because they are less able to see and act on the 'grey' of an issue and also, crucially, they are not taking part in society and economy at the fullest level, therefore they can only talk in purist terms 'We must do this. We must do that' not 'Should we do this? What would be the impact on jobs of doing this? What effect would putting a fine on car parking/aviation industry/plastic industry have on businesses and those with moderate incomes? Are these targets dates realistic in terms of the economy? Is the circular economy ready to absorb the losses? Is a circular economy viable?

Students supported Mao and Hitler in his beginning too. They were ideal candidates because of the purity and idealism of their thinking.

It is a concern that loads of children are jumping on the bandwagon of Adults with objectives that involve overthrow of government and that it has traction world world wide. It's concerning that schools felt it was ok for primary school kids to attend despite not looking at the objectives of ER and other participating groups like SW or even discussing those questions I mentioned. Had they done so, you could argue it would have taught children how to think critically and therefore of some educational value, but instead it seems to have been an excercise in trendy.

I am sorry to say that nothing I see of the current generation as a whole convinces me that they are better than the young people of old in terms of range of discriminate thinking. As a mature student I am at a University where speakers have been banned from attending because their views do not line up with current prevailing thought. Some of these are not even particularly controversial. I am not exaggerating when I say the ability to think about the wider implications of an issue are on the whole lacking.

The sorts of discussions you see on MN on the feminist board for eg are not happening. Take the current gender ideology debate. It is not being debated. It is being swallowed wholesale. And anyone invited to speak who would debate it is not allowed. Students protest and make demands about assumed causes of discrimination without ever having done an multi-variant analysis or even a simple questionnaire to isolate said causes or see if said causes are actually the problem. Things like this.

I don't want to derail the thread, but if you think the current generation of young people - and I include my own - are a patch on previous generations in terms of debating ideas, you are greatly mistaken. Sorry but they are not, this is because they have been indocrinated by excessive liberalism at school and higher education for too long. This has left them extremely influenceable. It is no coincidence that the term 'influencer' has becone big coinage in our time.

And wanting to overthrowing current governments is a heinous idea because?😂

They advocate peaceful demonstrations which they were just like the demonstrations which took place around the rest of the world.

My DD is v eco conscious, she is not perfect. Same as me. She wants to strike but also doesn't want to waste the schools time, resources and efforts by missing lessons. So in the end she 'sent' me on the strike to represent her, whilst she went to school. And I worked late to make up the time, I'm privileged in being able to do that of course. It's really hard. We all need to do what we can, standing up and being counted is part of that.

And wanting to overthrowing current governments is a heinous idea because?

It's not current just government. It's the current political system. But your casual laughy dismissal typifies my point about the standard of debate.

I suppose it's only one day off school, so it's probably not going to lead to them being illiterate for life as a result.

I would be interested to understand whether adult climate protesters would be prepared to do what is likely necessary to halt global warming, if it is possible at all (practically speaking). Given that the major contributors to carbon emissions are developing countries and continents, such as China, India and sub-Saharan Africa, what would really have to happen is to ban huge populations from developing their economies, way of life and cultures to have what we in the West have had for 100 years or so. We would have to artificially (and presumably forcefully) hold them back from having the diets, conveniences, comforts and way of life that Europe, North America and Australasia have had for decades.

How does that sit ethically?

I would adore it if walking more, using less heating and getting milk delivered would halt climate change, but it won't actually make any difference whatsoever.

Interested to hear the thoughts of any climate protestors.

The current political system is broken, have you not noticed.

So you would replace a capitalist democracy with?

Chatt3rb0x
Intrigued re your obsession against the organisers Xmas, you’re posting about little else.🤔*

I came across a demonstration yesterday and was interested to find out more as they have grown so quickly. As a parent I want to know more about the people that our influencing our kids - a bit of the critical thinking that CatherineofAragonsPrayerBook is talking about. What I thought was purely a climate change movement had a different plan to what I expected.

It talks about Revolutionary context and
‘people’s private desire to be rid of the failed regime. Or potentially, and more importantly, the number of people who are indifferent to whether the political system is removed or not.’
This feels like it is exploiting people’s desire for action in climate change to bring about political regime change. Also again as a parent I’m interested that one the organisers openly talks about hallucinogenic drugs and another is in custody with regards to drones at Heathrow.

*CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook’ I don’t think the socialist workers got the memo about the placards
‘Make actions feel inclusive and fun
The inclusive and human feel of these occupations is essential to maintaining morale and nonviolent discipline. We know that the inclusion of children and older people can be extremely effective in stopping macho or aggressive behaviour whilst creating greater media interest. An occupation should not have the logos of other groups or parties but should be a bright display of extinction symbols and whatever appropriate creativity the art groups produce.’
Also
‘This is particularly the case when the young and the old take part as sacrificial action by both groups creates far greater public interest and sympathy then the ‘usual suspects’ – young men. This is the key reason why direct actions should be designed in an open way which are accessible to the two groups.’
I know I keep posting quotes from Roger Hallam but I was just quite surprised at what I found.

When I was at school (not in the Uk but 6th form equivalent) my teachers were actively encouraging us to take time off school to attend political and climate protests. There is great value in young people getting engaged with politics and the world around them. I am grateful to my teachers for seeing the value in our engagement and they used it in the lessons too to stimulate debate.
I think it’s shameful how much abuse and mocking Greta Thunberg gets from adults. I think she is great and hopeful her movement has momentum.

They clearly didn't Xmas It's pretty disturbing stuff and that last bit says everything.

The attitudes here are astonishing!

I took my children to the protest. They went with a high level of understanding about climate change, pollution, changes that need to be made etc etc.

They listened to other children give incredibly impassioned speeches, and watched our local councillors and politicians stand there and demand action and responsibility.

My children have already made and accepted many many changes in their own lives for the sake of the planet. They refuse plastic crap, they reduce their own usage without being forced, they have enough understanding at a young age to be able to make decisions that aren’t selfish and greedy.

My children missed 2 hours of school to take part in a global movement that they feel very strongly about. I’m not a middle class, virtue-signalling cunt. Thanks though! None of mine or my children’s activities at the protest were divulged to anyone else apart from close friends and family, and not put on social media. I told the school exactly where they were and why they were there.

I don’t get why anyone would criticise children for actually getting involved in something really bloody important. My children love school, and were quite happy to go back in. They just think the cause was worth it.

It’s so hard not to slip into “whataboutery”
Families near me that are the most vocal have:

• had 3, 4 or 5 children
• considered the (perfectly good) primary school next door to them not to be nice enough for their child so opted for another one further away requiring a car journey (in their large diesel vehicle)
• taken an above average number of flights for family holidays or short breaks
• own pets

I know It’s not about being perfect but I find it so hard when they come across as preaching to other individuals about what they should do, when there are big life choices they have made that don’t back up their apparent strong beliefs.

I am conflicted as I would like to get involved but feel conscious that we drive a diesel car, I often drive to school which is very close but I have to go on to work, I order from amazon a lot for convenience and price etc etc. and we live in a house which is arguably unnecessarily large for us. So I don’t feel I can stand there with a banner.

I think there are unnecessarily harsh assumptions being made here about what protesters are doing (or not) to cut their environmental impact. It's not about not having a mobile phone; not that easy to be part of civil society today without a smartphone! It's about educating ourselves and looking for ways to make cuts. If we all kept our phone an extra year before upgrading it; if we fixed things rather than replacing them; if we cut our flying by half; if companies allowed their workers to work from home a day a week; etc. We can't focus on the futility of it all; we have to focus on practical and achievable personal actions, trying to spread those actions across our own communities, and lobbying government. Which means, coming out to support protests.

Wineismycarb the major contributors to climate change are about 100 major companies not developing economies. Developing economies do not have to develop in the way that Britain did 200 years ago. We have more advanced technology now. There are ways to reduce carbon emissions without us having to live like hermits. Can't we at least try?

One of the mums who made a big song and dance about taking their children out of school for the protest just had her 5th child and drives a massive 4x4 the 5 minutes to school every day...

To all the naysayers - it's not an either or, or an all or nothing thing. I really don't see why a reasonable adult wouldn't be able to understand that.