To be worried about democracy in Britain?

[amandacarnet]

We have a representative democracy in this country. That means we vote for MPs who represent us in parliament. Of course how well they represent us depends on the individual, but the system is supposed to be set up so that no one MP or prime minister can unilaterally make decisions.
Talk about a second prorogued parliament shows how our parliamentary democracy can be totally by passed.
Whatever your views on brexit, this is a major concern for democracy in our country.

I agree. The last year has been an absolute joke either way of where you sit.

They should have set up a full time brexit party similar to a war cabinet as soon as we got the result.

All this chopping and changing is no good for anyone.

To me this isn't even about brexit, but about a representative democracy. Although there have been real concerns about this, a lot of our population don't seem that concerned about any erosion in democracy. Democracy can be lost and far more quickly than I think most people in this country realise.

YANBU, GB is well on the road to fascism. You have an unelected PM, leading a party without a Parliamentary majority, who has just closed down Parliament, most probably in an illegal manner (some Court decisions on this are already in). In response the PM is openly saying he will ignore the law. It doesn't get much more undemocratic than this.

I find it very strange that certain quarters are jumping up and down screaming about the democratic process in regards to the Brexit result yet seem totally unbothered by this. Democracy only seems to matter when it is what you want.

I am pleased that people such as Gina Miller and Lord Pannick are prepared to fight this.

You are absolutely right. It is horrifying.

YANBU, GB is well on the road to fascism. You have an unelected PM

A PM who offered Parliament an election to test his legitimacy, which Parliament then deliberately voted against, thus keeping him in place.

Weird kind of fascism, that.

It's awful, but too many people don't really understand what democracy is.

It seems that to many people, the government doing ANYTHING that results in Brexit, is democracy, no matter how ludicrous it is or how bad it may be for the country.

The fact that BJ didn’t even give a testimony to the court says everything imo. He knows he’s lied to the public, but doesn’t want to risk prosecution for contempt of court.

I actually find it fascinating (in a very scary way) how entitled he is.

I can’t believe he’s even prepared to take up the courts time with this nonsense. Everyone, remainer or otherwise, knows why he prerogued Parliament for 5 weeks. Imagine how deluded you must be to believe people don’t see through that and you can just fib them off. Why not just be honest about what you’re doing? It’s utterly ridiculous.

I don’t understand why he wasn’t forced to appear in court. If he is found to have acted unlawfully, why is there no talk of him being prosecuted?

If you were a CEO and we’re found to have tampered with board meeting agendas or to have cancelled decision-making processes, you would be sacked, possibly prosecuted for any losses incurred. Yet he will most likely carry on as PM. The world has gone mad.

And why isn’t Dominic Cummings being tried for cyber crimes and misleading the public with false propaganda?

YANBU OP. Our archaic "system" of buffoons being elected by an outdated electoral system in which about 50% of seats are safe for one party is utter shit. The idea that we have a super unwritten constitution that's defined by convention and whispering to the Queen is also shit and no longer fit for purpose.

I am at once grateful and uncomfortable about Gina Miller's intervention. People are (rightly) concerned about the role of unelected dudes like Cummings but Gina Miller only got to take the actions she has from being wealthy - no-one elected her either.

The basic issue has to be that a referendum is incompatible with representative documentary. That cuts to the heart of how one feels democracy should work.

But you are correct that our democracy is fragile, shoddy, old and fucked up and badly needs reform.

I bet we don't get any proper reform though.

I was recently in Paris where someone said Parisians reject change and are only just getting used to the Eiffel Tower. We are the same when it comes to any real political, constitutional and democratic change.

Politicians who openly break the law and lie, but even then evade prosecution and punishment is yet another sign of a fascist state. The erosion of democracy is often a step by step process and no one does anything until it's too late.

If you were a CEO and we’re found to have tampered with board meeting agendas or to have cancelled decision-making processes, you would be sacked, possibly prosecuted for any losses incurred

Actually that is vanishingly unlikely - more likely you would be given a pension pay off in the millions and paid off - which is another reason this goes on. Business and politics are all run by the same gang of arrogant entitled wankers which is why we keep getting shat on.

And why isn’t Dominic Cummings being tried for cyber crimes Because his mate Nick Clegg says nothing bad happened.

It seems that to many people, the government doing ANYTHING that results in Brexit, is democracy, no matter how ludicrous it is or how bad it may be for the country.

That would be because of a vote in 2016. Not saying it's right - but there was a majority vote for Brexit.

I'm an optimist but I think we'll look back in 10 yrs and say that our democracy, the institutions and the unwritten constitution worked as they were meant to work. It feels very painful at the moment but I think it is democracy in action.

advisory referendum

Cendrillion I agree we are a long way from fascism. But the opposite of democracy is a dictatorship
Boris Johnson is not hitler. But hitler shut down parliament so he could force through the " will of the people".
And it actually does not matter if a majority of the population want something to happen or not. The point is that representative democracy matters.
Representative democracy is always different from a straight majority of the population. The majority of the population has at various times wanted to remove rights from vulnerable groups. Representative democracy is supposed to be about ensuring that vulnerable groups are protected against the majority opinion.
I know it does not always work in practice. But it does stop the worst abuses which a simple majority of the population would not.
We need to fight to keep our representative democracy.

It doesn't get much more undemocratic than this.

Is this a joke?

We could be living under a dictatorship, with no elections ever, forbidden to criticize the government, with any kind of opposition suppressed in prisons or concentration camps or murdered, forbidden to leave the country, with power handed over to the dictator's chosen successor when he dies or leaves office.

Of course it is not a dictatorship. But democracy is fragile. People are acting as if our democracy is assured when things can change.

I'm an optimist but I think we'll look back in 10 yrs and say that our democracy, the institutions and the unwritten constitution worked as they were meant to work. It feels very painful at the moment but I think it is democracy in action.

I think that our democracy is being tested with the aim of destroying it. Or at least to the extent that right-wing reforms can get through (break down of the welfare state, privatization of state bodies, reduction/removal of environmental, safety and working regulations).

Fingers crossed the uk's constitution is strong enough. I think we'll find out soon.

@RosiePosiePuddle
advisory referendum Ah yes, sorry, I forgot to say advisory referendum that the government promised 27 million times they would implement whatever the result (when they actually meant as long as it's remain).