To ask what I should expect teachers to put in place for ds7?

[OrangeBlindFire]

Posted here as ive a meeting tomorrow with teachers. DS 7 hasn't been diagnosed with any SEN however is on an IEP individual education plan. he is average with maths but reading and in particular writing is really really behind.

We have meetings each term and they used to take him out several times a week for reading and writing extra help, but last year teacher said shes not taking him out unless necessary as she doesn't want him to fall behind any more than he is, which I can understand.

There has been some progress between each meeting, however between his noveber 2018 and march 2019 reports, his aims and targets where very very similar, so I don't feel that hes improved as much as he should.

I am writing down things I need to ask his new teachers when I see them tomorrow. I just want him to have the very best chance and hes becoming more aware as hes getting older that he struggles more than most.

Im also a bit concerned as now theyre in juniors theyre allowed more children in the class so now there is 32 instead of 30, although that may just be me worrying over nothing.

as he doesn't have a statement or diagnosis is he still entitled to extra help? can anyone think of anything else I should ask.

oh and it is a good school but there is also another good school in town with an increasingly good reputation and result who have only 27 pupils in the class. I don't want to move him and further disrupt him but its hard knowing if keeping him where he is or moving him would be the best for him :(

You say he hasn't been diagnosed. Is that because he's not been put through a y diagnostic process?

If so, that's the first thing that needs to be happening. You need to know what is going on. Is he dyslexic? Does he have poor processing or working memory? Am going to assume he's had his eyes and ears checked.

Once you know what the problem (s) are, you'll be able to work out what type of interventions are necessary. Just doing more of the same, in the same way, isn't necessarily going to help.

I wouldn’t move him if the only reason is a class of 27 rather than 32, that doesn’t make much difference.

The problem with removing children for intervention is that either they miss other subjects eg PE, art, science - and often these are the subjects academically weaker kids excel in and/or enjoy most. Alternatively, they miss their English lesson for an English intervention - and as the teachers have identified, this actually can lead to them falling further behind. Support within class is the best option in most cases - ask if this is available, whether that’s specific tasks, support from the teacher or TA, or additional aids eg coloured overlays, access to a laptop or whatever is appropriate.

Can you afford a tutor? This might be a possible way to help him outside of school. Otherwise, daily reading at home and spelling practice will help.

thankyou. he had speech therapy when he was younger and whilst hes almost completely typical with his speech now, I think this strongly affected how jhe learned to write in reception and y1 because he wrote phonetically, but his phonetically was different because of how he spoke.

I have asked about assessing for dyslexia etc and was told they wont refer for that until theyre older. His eyes and ears have been checked and there doesn't seem to be a problem there.

So i need to see if he can have / is having extra help within the class?

I think part of it is that hes just not interested, so that makes it even more difficult.

We do reading daily and spellings every other day at home. Ive used games etc

Oh and the numbers aren't the only reason I was thinking about the other school. they seem to have a more well rounded approach of the whole child whereas the one were at is more old fashioned and academic focuses (but still an excellent school) but the results at the other school are improving year after year and are quite impressive. although id really rather keep him where hes settled unless its necessary.

Ask the school to get him to do the CoPS test if they haven’t already. They should have access to it. Look it up online and see if you think it would help

Ok, that's what I thought (unfortunately). He is 7. He needs to be assessed for dyslexia- not at some undefined point in the future, but properly and soon. If this school wont accommodate it, then yes move him to one that will.

Too many dyslexic children have miserable school days during which their confidence is crushed because their needs are not recognized.

Thanks so much, I'll tell them I want him assessing for dyslexia and lll lol that up thank you x

Hi @OrangeBlindFire - I have twins in almost exactly the same boat as you - in SALT for infants and now Y6 and very behind in reading and writing.

We had a meeting with the ed psych for one of them last week. She said it was quite common for children who’d had speech delay to have processing and memory issues as they get older; it’s not completely insurmountable but does require extra support.

Mine have been having regular phonics and reading support out of the class - it was daily but I think it’s twice weekly now. They’re both very behind but other measures are things like, being seated near the teacher so they can keep and eye out and assist where needed; not as much pressure to finish stuff.

Happy to talk about it further if you like - I know it’s a worrying time.

I have asked about assessing for dyslexia etc and was told they wont refer for that until theyre older. that's rubbish. My son had the same as yours and was assessed in Y2. He was diagnose with dysgraphia. I would 'bully' the school or pay myself for a assessment.

If you can afford it get a dyslexia assessment asap. I did this last year when my son turned 7 on the advice of his class teacher. It cost about £295 and was a full diagnostic assessment. I took that to school and my son now has proper support in place. Prior to this the senco at school didn't want to screen him for dyslexia because he had passed his year 1 phonics test (but we had used phonics as part of his speech therapy).

You should also ask for an assessment for dyspraxia, which covers a lot of motor and processing issues.

My son had very similar - and other - problems while young. He was assessed for everything except dyspraxia by a whole host of ed psychs when he was 5/6. He received no diagnosis. Because he had got over most of the issues by the time he was out of infants, he triggered no further concerns with the schools. Before SATs and again before GCSEs he was given a bit of remedial handwriting practice, and for his A levels he was allowed to type in exams (and to type most homework in secondary school). He did very well - all A*s - and is about to start at Oxford after a gap year. BUT, because he needed permission to type in exams, the university required him to have an ed psych assess him for dysgraphia. We pad for this privately, expecting her to find him to be borderline. Instead, she found him to have severe dyspraxia. I feel very guilty that we did not have this assessment much earlier. He clearly found work-arounds for himself, but so many of the diagnostic criteria are things that we had all just assumed were part of his personality. When he was young, dyspraxia was much less on the radar for schools and even ed psychs, but it is much more recognised now (dysgraphia, I think, is usually considered a sub-set of dyspraxia).

All of which is to say, you may well need to pay for a private assessment down the road, so it is definitely worth putting pressure on for him to be assessed now. There are many support tools he can use throughout his education if there is an issue. In the meantime, in terms of reading, I would suggest audio books to keep him interested.

Our diagnostic assessment covered dyslexia, dyspraxia and dyscalculia.

Seconding he needs assessing ASAP. Has the school had the educational psych assess him at all? If not you need to push that in the very first instance. Given what you're saying it's highly likely he is dyslexic - do NOT be fobbed off by a school who says "ah but we are a dyslexia friendly school he doesn't need the Ed psych". The IEP means the schools know he has a problem but they're often unwilling to do more as it costs them money & identifying problems often means they have to fork out more money before they can access extra (stupid system). Push, push, push that's all you can do!!

Seconding audio books if he likes them - my dyslexic Ds doesn't as he also has an audio processing issue too. School was a disaster for him!

Primary school SENCO here...

From what you've detailed, there's plenty more that the school could and should be doing to support your DS. Regardless as to whether he has a diagnosis or not makes no difference as to how much support he is entitled to... If he needs it, he should get it regardless (though of course I'm well aware this isn't always the case with every school and a lot will make you feel like/tell you that there's no funding etc.) but the bottom line is, they have to provide the support that he requires to make progress. Going to your meeting (at risk of sounding too much on the offence...) armed with the correct information and knowing exactly what your son is entitled to receive to support him, will mean that they will have to come to an agreement to do more for him, as clearly their previous approaches haven't been successful enough.

Re further private assessments etc. if you feel this would be useful for you to understand his specific areas of need more/to provide more insight (as a dyslexic adult I definitely appreciate the need for this as I spent my whole school life just feeling stupid and that I didn't try hard enough!) but if you do feel like you understand his needs and this would be to try and push the school to do more, it's a bit of a grey area (depending on which local authority you're in) as to how much notice schools take of the recommendations made... Unfortunately sometimes these just get filed away never to be seen again! In addition, screening for dyslexia costs nothing, they can use a feee tool for this online... and also 7 isn't too young to identify dyslexic traits. I'd also agree with PPs about being fobbed off with schools saying they are 'dyslexia friendly'... trying not to make a blanket statement here, but in my experience this rarely means that dyslexic children get any meaningful support which is individualised to them unfortunately.

Please do feel free to pm me if you want any advice or specifics/specific phrases you can pull out which will mean they will have to act! Im a workaholic on maternity leave at the moment so would be happy to help if you like!

Good luck

I meant this afternoon, not tomorrow, sorry. I've just got back. I did feel happy with what they told me, he's doing something, I can't engender what, with headphones it's a copying thing on the pc, as often as possible, hopefully daily.

They gave me a list of high frequency words he struggles with to practice at home.

I asked about dyslexia and they said even if he was diagnosed as dyslexic there are no other things they'd do that they aren't doing already, so I did feel happy with that... Until I came back and read these replies

Ah ok no worries! Well if you were happy with the outcome of the meeting, maybe give it until half term and get them to commit to a date for a review meeting... Ovs the offer still stands if you need any support!

thank you, and yes if you've any specific thing I can ask/say that would encourage them to test for it rather than just say theyre doing the things that would be done anyway. but are they?
would he get a sen TA if he was diagnosed? ive no idea how it all works.

ive just ;looked again at the symptoms of dyslexia and he does have almost all of these. one that stands out is remembering sequences. its not that hes not clever, he can remember loads of stuff about history, volcanoes, things like that, but for example this morning he asked what day it is, when I said Thursday, he said when is it Friday? he doesn't seem to know the day of the week or months of the year in order.

I'm sorry C305 but I don't agree. Sounds great but in reality...
"Regardless as to whether he has a diagnosis or not makes no difference as to how much support he is entitled to... If he needs it, he should get it regardless..."

The purpose of a diagnosis is to ensure via the Equal. Act that the recipient receives appropriate help. This is the legal difference between a teacher offering extra help to an NT pupil compared to the differentiated type of ongoing help the diagnosed student would require and post diagnosis would be legally entitled to.

This diagnosis and the recommendations from the clinician form the learning framework which should follow your child throughout their education and even into their workplace.

This is what teachers and the school should be following and integrating into your DCs individual learning plan.

Without this diagnosis the student is left in a goodwill situation where help may not either be suitable, or enough to help the diagnosed problem or withdrawn.

For older children, depending on the diagnosis and severity, this can affect exam accommodations (or not having them at all).

OP

• Diagnosis for dyslexia is typically done from 7yrs +.
• On-line (usually, in school) testing packages are not as rigorous as testing via an Ed Psych or Clinical Psychologist. On line tests are not recommended.
• Ask the tester what they are qualified to test for (and what they will be testing your DC for). Not all Ed Psychs can administer the test, score the test and diagnose.
• Ed Psychs can only test for SpLDs. If there are other issues ie ASD, ADD, ADHD etc... the Ed Psych cannot test for these.
• If you haven't already, get your DC's hearing and sight tested. I would recommend a behavioural optometrist and a specialised hearing clinic. www.chears.co.uk/ if you're not near, I'm sure they can recommend someone in your area. babo.co.uk/
• Phonics is not always appropriate ie my DS is dyslexic with extremely poor phonic awareness.
• Ask what qualifications the school learning support staff has and what (if any) the class teacher has.

I've found the Helen Arkell org extremely helpful.
www.helenarkell.org.uk/

That's why my post had lots of 'shoulda' in it, as I said, I'm all too aware this doesn't happen in a lot of schools and I was by no means implying that a diagnosis would achieve nothing but even with one, students are still often left in the good will situation... the point I was trying to make to the OP is that regardless of a diagnosis or not, that the school should be doing more under the SENDCOP, let alone the equality act and the SENCO at the OPs sons school will know this, they just too often rely on parents not knowing what their child is entitled to

**shoulds even!