Are my children "ungifted"?

[Puzzledbyart]

Please be kind, it is a stupid thread, but it does nag me somewhere deeply inside.

Just audited my friendship circle's offspring (children ranging in age from 2 to 12), and it looks like all of them have some special "superpower" in terms of abilities / interests. There's a fully fluent reader at 3y.o. A child aged 9 with highest grades in two musical instruments + a chorister at a famous choir. A sportsman competing at the national level. A math whizz, who is attending classes in secondary school now as he is way way ahead of the primary curriculum. A trilingual child, fully proficient at a native speaker level in all three languages. And everyone, just everyone seems to have their children on the "gifted and talented" register at school.

My children are 4 and 5, and are distinctly average in everything. Most of the time I am counting my lucky stars that they are just healthy and happy, but there are occasional days of doubt when I feel like I failed them in everything. Well, like today, when we had a playdate with a young friend similar to my oldest in age (5), and she created a comic book with a clear and engaging storyline, beautiful art and not a single spelling mistake, including expressions like "conifer trees" and "butterfly".

AIBU to ask you if you think that some children can be just naturally average, and there's no amount of effort that can make them excel at anything? Or did I miss something in their upbringing terribly?

[Lweji]

I always edpected her to be super bright like me

There is a difference between being bright and precocious.
Children are still developing so any advance in relation to their peers means that they have developed faster in that area, not necessarily that they are brighter.

In the same way that academic success doesn't translate into professional success, necessarily.

Emotional intelligence and other qualities like the capacity to concentrate, work hard, finish tasks, even asking for help, working as a team, etc are often overlooked by proud parents of "gifted children".

[onegiftedgal]

I hear you op. I think about this a lot but have come to realise that it is not the child but the parents who have encouraged/ developed the child in that area.
You cannot be fluent at reading at the age of 3 unless your parents have assisted you. You cannot be in a top choir unless your parents pay for the position and drive you everywhere.
My ds is 9 and is very high ranking in national football. I saw the passion in him when he was just 1 year old and it has developed but only through our assistance as I do have to take him everywhere. I am very aware to develop him in other areas.
These talents come only from the parents and the decisions that they make for their children.

[thepyjamagame]

It may interest you to learn that Albert Einstein was put on the 'thick table' early in his school life! He was a late reader, and didn't speak until later either.
Your kids' talents will emerge in the fullness of time.
"There is unpanned gold in every human being." Robert Downey Jr

[Cynsbin1]

This is so sad. A woman who audited her children’s friends and her tiny kids don’t measure up. Lady unless you learn what is truly important, you will destroy who they are. And will have serious resentments as they receive therapy as adults. Don’t you think your insight into their little friends is creepy?

[LolaSmiles]

Most of the talents children show at a young age are evident because the parents spend time and money nurturing them. Its impressive but nothing amazing.

Equally, by school (certainly secondary) we find the parents who are most likely to frequently claim their child is gifted/talented/super intelligent have bright and able children but really when in a year group of 200-250 they're not that stand out shining star their parents think they are.

The parents of genuinely exceptional children tend not to go on about it all the time.

[Imagineallthesheeple]

Are your children kind??? Plenty of gifted and talented children that grow up to be assholes. As long as your children seem happy and take an interest in the things they enjoy doing, they will be fine.

[Puzzledbyart]

Did not expect this thread to become so popular, will go and read all posts with more thought now.

A couple of things that seem to be the common theme:

• I was not racist or dismissive of their immigrant background, actually I am from the same background and that's how we all are friends in the first place. I mentioned this in response to a poster who asked if they are all from moneyed / privileged background. Their fathers are earning ok, some of them are on decent professional wages (doctors / software developers / similar), but none have inherited wealth, family help or anything similar. All mothers apart from me are SAHM (and this is obviously another source of guilt).
  

• I thought it was obvious that I used "audited" with respect to my friends' children's successes in a tongue-in-cheek way, but probably I need to go back and think again, if so many people were incensed by it. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not take daily recordings of little Tommy vs little Johnny achievements - only that after this particular playdate with an exceptionally bright child I started to wonder how come my own children do not seem to be THAT interested, engaged or successful in anything.
  

• There is no tradition of boasting in my circle. Quite the opposite, culturally you are not supposed to boast about your child's second place or 99% exam score, but rather complain that they weren't good enough to get a first or a 100%. And it's not like a stealth boast, it's a genuine complaint.
  

• Not sure how Brexit is relevant to this thread

[Raaaaaah]

Sorry OP you are being a little bit silly.
I come from a long line of very average folk. At my Grandma’s funeral my Mum spoke of her pride at this. On paper none of us are particular remarkable or super bright. All apart from a couple have quite lowly public service jobs. We need a world filled with a range of intellect and abilities. There are only so many openings for concert pianists and world class athletes but a desperate need for the average.

[Raaaaaah]

As an aside I don’t think that means that we shouldn’t celebrate the super smart and talented too.

[WorryBadger]

DD is average intelligence and has shown no aptitude for 'measurable' talents like music, dance, art or sport. However, she is bloody hilarious and great company. I admire her free spirit, devil-may-care attitude.
I was a 'gifted' child and was utterly miserable, felt like I was only judged on that one thing, and still struggle with carpet-level self esteem.
Better being yourself and happy with it, than be labelled at an early age and labour under that expectation for life.

[Gwlondon]

I think the comic is very talented! If they are doing to art classes and coming up with that
You haven’t missed anything imo

[PookieDo]

My DD’s were not in any way super human powered small children, they were just normal average children

DD2 always liked drawing, and as she got older it turned out she was actually naturally good at it. But she had to learn it properly and invested the time to do so to improve and call it a skill.

[LolaSmiles]

Quite the opposite, culturally you are not supposed to boast about your child's second place or 99% exam score, but rather complain that they weren't good enough to get a first or a 100%. And it's not like a stealth boast, it's a genuine complaint.
That sounds utterly insufferable to be around.

What's wrong with a healthy positivity towards a child's successes without bragging or doing the faux pity party?

[Puzzledbyart]

What's wrong with a healthy positivity towards a child's successes without bragging or doing the faux pity party?
Nothing's wrong, but as I said, it is not a faux pity party, people.are genuinely upset about their children being just "the best", not "the best of the best". After reading some comments I realise that there must be a strong cultural/ "immigrant" component to it in my head, even narrow-mindedness to some degree, if you wish. Several posters mentioned that they were for a long time in-between jobs, or switched from manual win wage jobs to doing a degree and then launching a post-graduate career, but for many places in the world it sounds quite utopian (e.g. if you are a manual labourer, you are spending your free time sustenance farming, not obtaining a degree), and I guess I still cannot fully accustom myself to this. It was swim or sink for me and my peers, and the cost of "sink" was really high. The need to be "the best of the best" was drilled into me from the early childhood, and I wonder whether I am actually doing a disservice to my children with my current laissez-faire attitude. After all, they are likely to be competing for jobs and careers globally, against people with very different attitudes.

[Puzzledbyart]

"Subsistence farming", "min wage" - apologies for autocorrects

[LolaSmiles]

puzzled
I meant I agreed with you.
I think their obsession with being best, being top, endless comparing, implied competition between kids (see parents using their kids as a yardstick of their own amazing parenting) is really horrible.

It sounds like they're incapable of having a pleasant positivity towards their children. Instead of being happy about things they either have to boast and drone on about it, or they create some fake pity party about how awful it is their DC got 97% so they must increase the tutoring.

I don't know how you stand to be around it.

[PookieDo]

My Dsis has her children in private schools where the class sizes are smaller and she also had the money for them to do a lot more hobbies and tutoring. She feels her DC are advanced but this is because they have had access to more tools to learning than some other DC, it can’t be a measure of intelligence

[frogsoup]

I found my life's major talent and enthusiasm about 3 years ago. Im 43. They have time yet

[jojackdaw]

www.goodreads.com/quotes/505843-do-not-ask-your-children-to-strive-for-extraordinary-lives

[gymraes]

I agree with Trendy: My dk's were extremely bright/precocious each in their own way: All could read & write before nursery (& No-I didn't hot-house), two could do simple maths including division & multiplication (I am c--p), one 'played' piano (beautifully avanteguard!), one was extremely articulate and artistic, another had an aptitude for science and IT. This was ALL before nursery. All did well at school. Two dropped out of Uni, two didn't even apply. One works for a supermarket, two in utilities, the other in admin. My point being OP, it 'DON'T MEAN A THING'!

[HuloBeraal]

There is a little bit of sneering about immigrants on this thread and how they ‘work hard’ in a conspicuous manner. Many immigrants will tell you that they have heard the same whispers themselves. And the ‘oh thank god OUR children are not like THEIR children’ when immigrant children outperform others. There is a whiff of racism in all that.

Of course some immigrant parents go overboard. The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother is awful. But there is something to be said about work ethic. As an immigrant I can say unashamedly that having a good work ethic (along with a bunch of other personal values) is something I want to pass on to my kids. Whatever you do, do it well.
I suspect many immigrant communities (including working class ones) have kids who outperform their peers because of this mentality. Similarly many immigrant parents will get tutors because they can’t help their kids (this is not the case for DH and I and neither of my kids have ever had tutors). But have I ‘taught’ them informally from a young age? Of course. Have I encouraged any interests they have shown? (And encouraged them to stick to it for a bit and not give up after a week or two, yes!). Have I read to them every day? Yes. Have I taken them to museums, plays, concerts? Of course. (All this is also intertwined with the privilege I have to be able to do this). Have I also sought the best schools within our reach for our kids? Absolutely. Has that meant sacrifices? Yep.

Your friends’s kids may be gifted because:

• they have invested parents who are willing to make sacrifices
  
• they have invested parents who have the resources to do so
  
• the kids themselves have a natural gift that is being nurtured
  
• their parents value a work ethic and have made sure their kids do too.
  

Or a combination of the above. I have to say I find the sneering about immigrants doing any or all of the above a very ‘British’ thing. When I lived in America (with all its problems- god, so many of them), they were incredibly proud of people who worked hard and had a work ethic. Somehow in britain people who work hard get eye rolled at. Although to be very successful or even moderately successful you do have to work hard!

[Namechangerextraordinaire1]

@onegiftedgal i see what you mean, but I was also someome who said I was fluent in reading at 3 amd it wasn't due much to parental help. My xad worked full time and my mum worked in the home (as in an actual job she did from home, not general domestic work), and with 3 young kids, she was always too busy to help me too much. I just had a natural interest in reading, and had a brother who was a few years older than me who enjoyed helping me. So I do understand what you mean in that children only learn things from a young age with help, but it's not always down to a parent, pushy or otherwise, in the background.

[LolaSmiles]

When I lived in America (with all its problems- god, so many of them), they were incredibly proud of people who worked hard and had a work ethic. Somehow in britain people who work hard get eye rolled at.
It's not about rolling eyes at work ethic.

I'd inwardly roll my eyes at the following:

• endless bragging about how DC is so musically superior to other children
  
• how DC is by the the most naturally talented athlete in the area
  
• how upsetting it is and disappointing it is when DC gets 95% on a test
  
• how the tutor needs to do more because DC wasn't top
  

And so on

I'm all for praising hard work. I'm all for celebrating success. I find the outward showing off and/or stealth boasting to be nauseatingly irritating and more about the parents trying to use their child's as barometers for how awesome they are as parents.

[SoreAndFedUpToday]

Oh my goodness!! Well my children are obviously going to be Nobel prize winners and Olympic athletes (obviously I know this now they are excelling in everything age 5&7) so not sure my advice is helpful but ...

Just ignore them!! Your children being average is the best place they can be. Being at the top or bottom in a class in any activity or subject can be tricky for kids, and being at the top comes with a bucket full.of pressure. Your children are just perfect and in the perfect position, and have a mum who sounds lovely and normal :) (how did you meet these strange friends? Any chance of widenig your friendship circle a little to include some other normal folk?)

(BTW, I was joking above! my children are normal too, and no I don't think they will be Nobel prize winners or gold medalists (though DS2 is doing well with his stage 2 swimming class, so who knows!!)