AIBU about this incident at nursery

[Mar19901]

Okay i fully accept that i may bu but i just need to let this out.

Ds is 3 years old have posted previously has several health conditions and being assessed for autism. He started nursery last week monday we have been under the Early Years Inclusion team for the last year so he has a plan in place and the teacher that comes home has been great in assessing his needs. she has handed this over to the nursery and nursery manager (also SENCO) has been great. on our first day last week she sat with me explained his settling in period would be longer and more gradual etc i felt put at ease as ds never leaves my sides even going to bathroom is a session of crying so i fully knew it wasn't going to be easy. She assigned him a key worker who also seems very lovely very understanding ds can sometimes be violent toward himself mainly but sometimes others when worked up she seemed to really take this on board. so all in all i was feeling very supported and reassured with this transition.

fast forward to today, whole of last week stayed with ds in class for abouy 45mins last 15 mins i leave him with them and wait in lobby area still can see him but he cant see me. He has been screaming the place down non stop crying banging his head on door etc. his key worker tries her best to distract him and after 15 mins im allowed to take him home.

Yesterday nursery manager was away? so during 15 mins i was out of room DS was screaming but kind of just left to it. i could hear his key worker saying to another member of staff 'no eye contact with (ds name)' need to be a bit stern with him etc. DS continued to scream so other staff member was trying to distract him but ds Key worker kept saying leave him dont make eye contact etc. about 15 mins later she handed him to me saying he was better than previous days tomorrow we will try 30 mins me out of room.

is this normal? aibu.

Im trying very hard to work with nursery to ensure smooth transition im not being precious or over protective i know ds is hard work and fully understand nursery cant care for him one on one all time but just the fact that i could hear key worker saying that stuff has made me feel a bit weird.

sorry for long post

This is so hard. :( I agree it's not an approach which is good for a child. I know it's "what they do" but having seen my NT DD go through terrible separation anxiety at this age I look back and regret that I did the whole "ripping of the plaster" thing and listened to nursery.

I think you should be allowed to stay in the room still. Like JohnJoseph suggests, stay daily...leave for only 30 seconds to a minute at a time and gradually increase it.

As an experienced early years practitioner and mother of two DDs with ASD, I would strongly advise you to take him out of the nursery.

He doesn't need this. He needs to be with you. As long as you are engaged with him, talking about the different life experiences you share and he has opportunities to be around other children ( not wanting to interact with them is fine), you will be meeting all his needs. In fact, you're likely to meet them better than any nursery staff could.

If he is diagnosed with autism, you can us the information you receive about him from the assessments to decide when to start him in education and what support you would like him to have.

Please don't put you child through this unnecessary stress. If he has autism, he might find the world a stressful place already.

Take him out and let him stay at home with you.

Timandra I'm tempted to agree with you. The age of the little thing...it's so small and with some health issues and possible autism, the world is already a battle.

Perhaps there are some playgroups locally OP?

That sounds horrific, if either of my sons were treated like that (one autistic, one not) I would be removing them and complaining.
I would look for another setting.

God that sounds awful. If you want to pick him up and take him home and try nursery next year or never that is your right, don't feel forced into anything. However, I'll give my experience of DS3, I tried the same slow approach as you because I didn't want him to cry or be rushed. Nursery were happy with that. I stayed for the first couple of sessions, then I would stay for 15-30 minutes then leave for a bit, and he would scream and scream and it for worse and worse. I was ready to give up when the nursery said first try another method, drop and run, and come back in 15 minutes. We did this for a week and he stopped crying after about the third time. We build it up really slowly, 20 minutes, then half an hour then an hour... He now goes in for 3 hours and goes in smiling. So I do think hanging around is potentially hindering it as he's anxious about you going. I suggest trying the drop and run for short bursts and don't stand around to watch. If no better after 2 weeks pull him out. Good luck.

No it’s not normal. It’s down right cruel.
It’s a nursery not a borstal. He’s not being badly behaved. He’s an anxious scared little boy missing his mummy

No no no. This key worker has NO CLUE about autism or anxiety if the think this is okay.

And did she then lie to you and tell you he was better? I'm sorry but I would be having a word with the nursery manager about what you head.

My sons autistic and we tried a few mainstream places but though they tried we didnt find one that knew enough about autism so he went to an SEN pre school

Find an SEN pre school or one that is experienced in autism and can train in makaton, pecs and visual timetables.
They also need to be trained to feed her through his tube surely?

They don't have to be in Any education until their 5 but most do at 4 when they start school.

Sounds awful. I’d be tempted to take him out and just go to playgroups instead.

Ok, I deal with separation anxiety... in dogs.

I fully appreciate your son is not a dog, however on a cognitive level, small children and dogs have some similarities (and it is these similarities that allowed dogs to associate themselves with humans successfully)...

In NO way would this be acceptable in modifying behaviour with any other species.

If I were to suggest a protocol like this I would be thrown out of my professional body.

What they are attempting to do is to teach him that seeking attention does not work, give up, that asking for help does not work, that he is in fact completely powerless, submit to it and give up trying.

IF it works, what it will achieve is a child who stops trying to get help for himself - it won't make him HAPPY about the situation, it will simply suppress the behaviours he exhibits, for a short while. You will almost certainly see what dog trainers call 'fall out', ie, other problems cropping up elsewhere.

Take him out, don't go back.

Build his confidence and security and independence at HIS pace, give him choices (or the suitable and appropriate illusion of choices), play games where he goes away from you and learns that this is safe to do (start with a few feet, build up to out of sight round the back of the sofa or out the door to the room)...

But this.. whats going on now, is not necessary, its not beneficial, and its horrific and I feel SO angry at the people who have made you think this is necessary or ok, and have made you feel like you are the one with a problem in feeling uncomfortable with this.

As an ex teacher, I wouldn't be happy with the wandering off & 'stern' thing with any very distressed child. I think you need a very firm, clear strategy for such incidents that you discuss with the manager & key worker that they adhere to: based on what works when he's anxious, tired or stressed, whether that's distraction with a fun activity, a blankie, a favourite personal toy, then sitting nearby with the odd it's OK I'm here or, any physical contact that he's comfortable with when anxious.

• them sitting nearby....

also if anyone has been through similar how long did it take for your little ones to settle down into nursery?

It didn't until we changed him to a lovely supportive and understanding preschool. Looking back it's been clear within 6 weeks.

OP, it sounds like he's perhaps not yet ready for nursery. I would suggest taking him out and just enjoying ordinary days just the two of you. As he's being assessed for autism, I would be looking into an early intervention program for him - that sounds more appropriate at this stage. My son with ASD really thrived with intensive ABA therapy and is now happily settled at school.

please take him away from there. do not waste time and risk any more stress/suffering for the child by trying to discuss methods with them. they are not reliable, will tell you anything to keep the business. nobody will take such good care of him as you do. nobody knows him like you do. he knows that. he's got enough to cope with, special needs, medical issues, non-verbal etc.
keep him at home with you for as long as possible.
only expose him to people who you can be sure understand his condition, truly care, and can offer something you cannot.
good luck.

It does sound hard, I’m not experienced with sen teaching so can’t comment on her methods. I did want to comment on the poster who said to take him out because he doesn’t ‘need’ nursery at this age. I just think perhaps his mum needs it? It’s exhausting caring for any kid without a break, and after three years of it an hour here or there would be such a relief. In your shoes I would absolutely persist myself, because I think it’s important you have time to look after yourself. But I’d also talk to this nursery about their methods, and find a better fit if necessary.

Havent been able to sleep tonight just feel so anxious. DS has woken every 20 mins screaming looking for me :( i just want whats best for him i thought maybe he might enjoy nursery omce settled down but im not sure now.

also i have given several of his conforting things in his back pack all of which they wrote down in his journal but come to think of it now i have never seen them bring it out and use it.

to the poster below who suggested the drop and go i think i might try that but not for a long period like 10 mins and gradually increase and see how we get on. i have decided to speak to key worker today i need to remind her of his comforting items in bag above all else. no point in having it written in his records jf they wont use it.

OP I have been there with a boy that sounds has similar issues, right down to the NG tube. I also had to give up work and didn't go down the nursery or even reception route as he still had so many issues to contend with and I thought why should i make it harder for him? I used to take him to play groups, soft play, anywhere really that he could play in the proximity of others but I was still close by.

Some professionals take a completely different stance on how to manage separation and the whole 'stern' approach did not go down well with me (or him!) either. He eventually started start in Y3 and i'm not going to lie, it was hell on earth for 6/7 months, but several years on he goes in happily.

to the poster below who suggested the drop and go i think i might try that but not for a long period like 10 mins and gradually increase and see how we get on.

Please don't!

Trauma is a very real problem for children with ASD and can cause long term damage. The world is already a scary, chaotic place for him if he has ASD and adding to it could make things a lot worse.

The care he's receiving is inappropriate for NT children, never mind a child who may also be experiencing anxiety, sensory overload, emotional delay and poor social communication.

Are you struggling and in need of a break? If you are, that's quite understandable. There may be a preschool group run by a local special school or speech and language service you could access instead.

When are you expecting the neurodevelopmental assessment to take place/be complete?

Why are you taking him back? Almost all people have said don't.

These sorts of things stick with autistic children and wouldve taken my sons months and months to get over it.

He'd be staying home with me. Poor little tot is not ready, he's only 3.

I agree with the other posters. That doesn't sound right at all. My kids struggle with transitions, and drop off can be traumatic, but I never leave them if they are completely distressed. Even at school, if my son was upset at drop off, the teacher would pick him up and cuddle him - and that was when he was almost 2 years older than your son. My daughter has separation anxiety - enforced separation makes it worse. She needs to feel safe, and confident that she can cope without me. And for that, she needs to feel comfortable in her environment.