To think that 1st Cousin Marriage should be illegal

[stucknoue]

Background: as part of my job I rent out halls, they are very popular for Asian parties and weddings and my clients are lovely, often bringing me food and inviting me to their celebrations.

Over the past couple of months I've unfortunately had to rent the hall for child funeral meals twice to the same family, the kids were cousins and had the same rare genetic condition. In talking to their grandad he revealed that he and his wife were cousins, then going on to tell me that the parents of the sadly deceased children were also cousins. I looked up that cousin marriage increases genetic conditions 3 fold, the more generations that have practiced it then the higher the probability. With our knowledge of science surely this practice should be outlawed?

There’s a lot of public health promotion work within communities where cousin marriage is common or which have high carrier incidence of particular diseases which encourages couples to have genetic counselling prior to starting a family, and I think this is a more realistic and sensitive way of tackling the issue.

Yes, where I live you can marry your first cousin but you have to get genetic counselling first.

Race is relevant because it’s often a cultural practice forced onto the ‘couple’. That’s not part of our culture anymore is it?

Baroness Flather is Pakistani and she says the amount of inbreeding is appalling amongst those of her culture.
Over half of deaths of children from genetic issues related to cousin marriage occur within the Asian community particularly Pakistani.
Many many documentaries and interviews and studies have been made by Asian people themselves trying to raise awareness because they realise this is largely an issue confined to their racial group. What’s wrong with that?

I agree OP
A friend of mine used to work in a paediatric Ward in Sheffield, and got to know one particular family quite well as they were in and out often with 3 children, all of whom had the same life-limiting condition which meant none of them reached their 5th birthday. The parents were first cousins, and yes they were Asian.
It’s not racist to point out that fact, when it’s relevant to the subject: marriage amongst cousins is still way more prevelant within Asian communities than most other cultures in the U.K.!
But again, as others have said, it would probably be quite hard to enforce a ban on the practice.

However with the greatest of respect, how would making it illegal help? If one half of the couple was lives abroad until marriage (very common) then the U.K. authorities would have no idea they’re cousins

Actually I think there is general evidence that passing a law can cause behaviour to change, even when the law is impractical to enforce.

I'm a bit gobsmacked at the implication that something being illegal will zero effect on people's behaviour if transgressions are not detectable. Surely I'm not in a tiny minority in sticking to the law regardless of the chances of being caught?

I'm not a fan from genetix perspective. I think if people are considering it then a genetic screen would be a wise first move.

We need to have a sensible conversation about this, as a not insignificant number of children concentrated in certain communities are suffering. I worked in a hearing impairment unit in an area with a community practicing this nearby, over 90% of applications were coming from one ethnic group. The area was diverse and the school served a large area. It reached the point where 100% of pupils had the same home language, because it dominated so much other communities became concerned about integration. That is just a retelling if facts, not my opinions. There was a local project testing the genes of children and linking the prevalent gene.

Elsewhere in hospitals other children have life limiting or painful conditions.

Personally I think we need both educational and legal barriers, the legal barriers to support women who often feel forced into these marriages that are arranged for them. Maybe those forcing would be less keen if it wasn’t legally recognised. Maybe not all, but in this case some children suffer horrible fates. We need to put aside emotions on this one and thing what we can do to help. I have a friend married to a first cousin, they are a lovely family. Thankfully they have lovely healthy children- but she is clear with the knowledge she now has she’d have no more nor would she led her child do the same. More people I know have parents who are first cousins, but in our area it has become less common down the generations.

My own family are white but come from a group that has a common trait to do with digesting dairy, I’m glad people talk of it. I’m glad I have the knowledge. It’s not about judgment, it’s about thinking what we can do armed with the the knowledge we have. Some children now survive also and have much longer and painful lives, ones where they don’t know communication or even touch.

I have a cousin marriage in my family. The kids get bullied pretty badly.

I think it's the repeated incidences of first cousin marriage that have the chance of causing genetic problems. A one-off marriage in a family is not the same thing, and if you did bring legislation in what about couples who are already married?

One off cousin marriage are relatively risk free. It’s when it is constant ‘interbreeding’ that problems arise.

Banning it would not sold the problem, understanding and education where it is prevalent would be better.

So banning cousin marriage would be ridiculous because you do have people who do fall in love and unfortunately that is their cousin (one off cousin marriage).

Surely I'm not in a tiny minority in sticking to the law regardless of the chances of being caught?

I take it you don't read the speeding threads ...

Dh is a scientist and works in genetics. He has done lots of research in this area in various countries. It's a huge issue because of the many genetic conditions that don't filter out as people marry others with the same genetic condition. It may sound racist but sadly it is most prevalent amongst some Asian communities where lots of people marry first cousins. It's a tradition that causes so much harm.

My DP has a genetic disability, his parents are first cousins.
BUT there is no way to outlaw this. Couples would just have av religious only marriage which would mean the mothers would have less legal rights. So no.

It's not racist.

It's a true fact of the social laws and rules around cousins marrying. It's also more common in some cultures.

I work in SN education. We have siblings coming through the school with severe physical, medical and learning difficulties due to the parents being first cousins.

Ok, we also have plenty of children who are severely disabled for different reasons. But those reasons were unavoidable.

I'm not sure a law can be passed (although I know it has for siblings etc) but there definitely needs to be more education around the risks and perhaps preventative rather than reactive measures.

Of course it isn't racist, it is possible to mention other races in conversation without being racist. Yes I think marrying a first cousin should be illegal.

There is a lot of research into this. Have you heard of the Born in Bradford project? borninbradford.nhs.uk

Accusations of casual racism are not helpful, when it comes to understanding the suffering these families experience, as it has the potential to close down legitimate areas of inquiry. It is undoubtedly true that the combination of a culture of cousin-marriage that evolved in rural Pakistan to keep land in the family, once brought to the UK where the pool of cousins to marry and have kids with is much smaller, has resulted in more first cousin marriages and a rise in genetic abnormalities.

There is more awareness among the affected communities, so hopefully it is a problem that will gradually cease of its own accord. This doesn't mean that all cousin marriage should be banned. It means that families considering second or third cousin marriages and marriages with non-cousins and it means ensuring that genetic screening is done prior to marriage.

I don't think making cousin marriage illegal would be right or even effective (how would the authorities know?) but education can make and is making a difference.

I did know one family where three sisters had married three brothers (small, isolated town) which made their children double cousins. The parents had been advised that these cousins should never intermarry!

Imagine how easy family parties were with only two sets of grandparents, though.

Reading this thread... may I ask, why is it customary for certain cultures, religions or ethnicities to marry their own kin? Does anyone know?

I can only assume if you live in a remote village, there are only so many potential suitors to marry and they may be related due to the sheer lack of numbers?

To me, being racist is discriminating against people or treating them differently because of their race.

Stating a fact that certain practices are more prevalent amongst communities from certain religions or countries is not racist (as long as it's properly researched and not just an assumption).

In the OPs case, she has noticed this in certain communities but this has been in the news in the last couple of years and I thought it was a pretty well established fact that first cousin marriage is more common in some communities where they want to keep wealth in the family and because they know the family background etc.

Anyway like other posters have said though, it's not the marriage that's the issue its having children and I'm not sure this can be policed. As then we would also have to police peoples choices around children with other genetic conditions that have a high chance of being passed on.

I think education is the way forward and this would be best targeted at communities where this is more of a feature. However saying that I think it may be illegal in some other countries and I'm not sure how that works eg could they just go somewhere else to marry or have a religious ceremony and have children anyway

It would be interesting to know the views of those parents who have a first cousin marriage and have a child or children with a significant genetic condition or have experienced their child die from a significant genetic condition.

OP is NOT being racist. My family is Hindu and it is Hindu tradition for first cousins to marry - for many (especially older) people it is considered the ideal match for an arranged marriage. My father in law was the first in his family to refuse to marry a first cousin and it caused a lot of problems for him.

they are British citizens and married in Britain, they were oblivious that their family tradition had any repercussions.

I find this very unusual, to be honest. Whilst older and first-gen immigrants might be unaware, British-born, educated people from Asian (and other) backgrounds - even those who still engage in traditional practices like arranged cousin marriage - are not oblivious to the risks and unless they live in a rural backwater, will have been exposed to promotion work advising of the risks. It's actually relatively rare in even the most insular and traditional communities for young couples not to take up genetic counselling - even Hasidic Jews take part in screening for things like Tay Sachs and Canavan, and marriage between couples who both screen positive for those will be disallowed.

BBC 3 had a really interesting documentary a couple of years ago about first cousin marriage. It's narrated by a young Pakistani woman who researches the genetic and cultural side of the arguments. She also has her own genetic tests done, and has very frank discussions with her family both in England and Pakistan, some of who have disabled children as a result of their marriage to cousins.

It's the most balanced programme I've ever seen on this issue and fascinating. Here's the iplayer link, although it's not available on here any longer it's on you tube etc if anyone is interested in finding it
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p056gvhm

Should add - I totally agree with you OP. I think it should be illegal too. A family member is severely disabled and has had no quality of life and condition is probably down to parents being first cousins. It’s not fair - the conditions that can be caused are awful.

It’s not racist. Op sounds lovely.

We all know cousin marriages are common in certain communities and as a result there’s is multi cousin marriage down the line which does increase chances of genetic disorders..

I think YANBU OP.

By the way my in-laws went to the GP and asked if there was any medical reason they should not marry and have kids. They were told no it was fine. These days they would be sent for genetic screening. DPs genetic disability is very rare.