Toil - who is unreasonable here?

[WillowPeach]

I need advice please for tomorrow.

I’m a hard worker and my job often involves working long past my contracted hours depending on the needs of the job.

Contracted hours are-
8:30-17:00 mon-wed
08:30-16:30 thurs
08:30-16:00

Last week mom-wed, I worked a minimum of 08:30-19:45 - no issues with this. My manager agreed for me to take this TOIL back on Friday afternoon. Perfect I thought as my Dad lives away from me and he was visiting for the weekend starting from Friday afternoon.

3:15, my manager rings me and tells me to prepare for coming into work as an ‘emergency’ has come in and she might need me for it. I told her that I was unable to do this for the above reasons and seeing as I’ve not seen my Dad for months, I wasn’t prepared to let him down. She said that if I wasn’t able to come back in, then I should of booked the time as annual leave and not TOIL. I explained that I wasn’t aware of this but I won’t be coming back in.

I asked her who the duty worker was (we each on the team have a duty day). She said that x person but couldn’t get hold of this worker. She said she’d see what she could do but to prepare myself for having to go back in.

I can’t help but think of her as a CF as I’m always working well past my hours and rarely take a lunch break (nature of the job sadly). The one day I make plans for outside of work, she calls me and ‘politely’ essentially says I don’t have a choice and they need me in. My argument is, that had I of travelled back in, I’d of got there for 15:45 so only 15 minutes prior to contracted hours finish time and had I of had plans outside of work, I’d of had to say sorry I can’t work late tonight (literally never happens!).

Overall I didn’t have to go in as someone else stepped in for me (which I thanked them for!) but I can’t help but feel that she’s taking advantage of my usual flexible nature. I know exactly what to expect tomorrow and just know she’s going to sit me down and outline the rules of if you have toil then you must be available to come back into work (fair enough I suppose if necessary - I think) but is it CFery of her to assume I’m just available to work late on Friday night and then challenge it when I say I’m not able to? Surely we’re all entitled to makes plans outside of work otherwise none of us would ever do anything would we?

Who’s being unreasonable here?

In case anyone asks, overtime is not paid, you only get TOIL which you then have to arrange a convenient time with your manager to take this back as time off to which my manager is saying you still have to essentially be on call.

She is definitely unreasonable.

If she wants you to stick to the rules then I would be. Starting work at exactly the start time, taking my full lunch and finishing at exactly finish time.

I had TOIL in a job a couple of years ago and it was explicit that TOIL could be cancelled to suit the company's needs, mainly in urgent circumstances. So if we had something arranged, we had to bank the TOIL and use AL instead.

So if this is the case with your employer too,bthen it's annoying, but they're within their rights.

If they didn't tell you this, then they are BU. Sorry OP.

She IBU.

If you have to be available to work if needed when using TOIL then fine, if they are the rules. However, to demand you into work for only 15 minutes of contracted hours on the assumption that you will then work late (when you are never paid for it?) is not on.

Agree you stick to your hours and no more in future. That’s what I’d do I’ve overtime wasn’t paid and TOIL was a pain in the arse to arrange and then only conditional on the business not needing you.

Fuck that straight in the bin.

Same with me OP. If I know I need leave for some thing important I always book annual leave and then change it - literally - at the last minute, or even on my return, to TOIL.

They can't cancel AL, but can cancel TOIL, even at the 11th hour, unfortunately.

So the way I read this is that the duty worker is the person who is supposed to be 'on call' so to speak? And they're uncontactable? If that's the case then they're the Cfs and so is your manager for expecting you to pick up the slack because others aren't doing what they're supposed to.
Even if my understanding isn't correct you are still not unreasonable to expect to be entitled to some downtime.

What are your rules on notice for annual leave? If this comes up again, take the leave and reschedule the TOIL. And can AL be cancelled to suit the department's convenience?

If you are working nearly 3 hours per day OT, you must be clocking up a day of TOIL every 3 days - how are you managing to take it? It suggests that fundamentally the department is under-resourced. How do they manage when you take TOIL?

As PPs have said, the right to defer TOIL seems to be fairly standard, but it's very insensitive of your manager to do that on the one time when you have a commitment.

What happens if you don't take your TOIL? it just builds up and up until ....what? If you leave, are they then forced to pay it out?

@sweetnorthernrose

Yes that’s right. It’s just a given that if you’re on duty, it’s unwise to arrange plans outside of work as emergencies can come in. For this reason if it’s my duty day, I save myself the stress and don’t plan anything. If it’s duty week (whole team is on duty) then I plan nothing at all for that work. The case that came back in was ‘mine’, it was a case that was closed several weeks ago and it came back on Friday (it will be reallocated to me due to it coming back in within a specific timeframe). My argument would still be that the emergency should be covered by the duty worker as their purpose is to cover emergencies for the team as a whole. I know this particular colleague (as lovely as she is) is known for going awol near finish time (I presume to avoid being asked to stay in the event of an emergency coming).

@filka

The department is definitely under resourced. It’s a national problem sadly. You are only allowed to accrue 15 hours of toil so usually it’s kept down by coming in an hour or two later or leaving slightly earlier. Its a rubbish system as the nature of the job means it’s often difficult to take back but it is what it is. I knew that before I came into the industry. I’ll definitely look into swapping annual leave for toil in future (although you aren’t allowed to take anymore than 2 days of toil back per month!) its so easy to rack up way past that though. If you leave then you lose it - it’s very much a one way system in favour of the employer.

Social work offices are always under resourced and you rarely get TOIL back. It’s the nature of the job and why so many people are leaving.

If they want to stick to the policy then they could have cancelled your TOIL and asked you to come in. Then at 16:00 the time stops being TOIL and is outside of your contracted hours so you go home again. And in future you make it clear that if they want you to work overtime it must be booked in advance, as for annual leave, and any unplanned overtime will be treated in the same way as TOIL and can be cancelled by you with no notice.

But before any of that, check the actual policy as there’s a reasonable chance they’re talking bollocks. And they need to be clear about the role of being ‘on duty’ as if the duty person was not contactable it sounds like your manager’s beef should be with them not you.

This kind of shit is one of the many reasons I am now self employed.

Oh I bet you are a SW. I don’t miss this!

@LikeSilver I don’t miss it at all ☺️

If you can't take back more than 2 days then you shouldn't be working more than 16 hours of overtime per month.

Are they recording your actual hours, whether you use or lose the TOIL? On average, do you get anywhere near the 60 hour limit of the Working Hours Directive?

I am indeed a social worker, ding ding ding that is the right guess

@filka I record my own hours through the staff portal and these are signed off by a manager at the end of each month

I've never been at a work place where TOIL was treated differently from annual leave, but it sounds as though that is normal in your line of work, sorry.

This shit is the whole reason I left social work after having my own children. You can’t simply go home at 4pm unfortunately, you are waiting for doctors to complete a medical, you are waiting for the police to intervene, you can’t just turn off your computer and go. My sympathy as it sounds like your manager isn’t great (and that is fatal in sw) - imo what you are describing should have been entirely the remit of the duty worker and then the out of hours team over the weekend if necessary. Nobody liked Friday afternoon duty but you have to suck it up, don’t you?

Our out of hours ‘team’ is made up of 1 social worker so they can’t really cover much. It’s rubbish!

Thanks all for the advice, I shall be calm and rational when questioned today

She is BU.

I've never heard of this either, toil is essentially treated the same as AL, but sadly not surprised to hear you work in a profession which the government has eroded.