To think Jo Swinson would benefit from voice training...? (... like so many of us)

[simpletruth]

I've just watched Jo Swinson on the Andrew Marr show. I'm a potential Lib Dem voter, so I'm sympathetic to many of her views, but I do find her voice very shrill and therefore off-putting. It gets more shrill as she becomes more indignant, and it sounds less authoritative than calmer deeper voices (of either gender). I think Margaret Thatcher famously went to a voice coach to teach her to talk lower and slower. I certainly find that when I talk slowly and calmly to my kids they're much more likely to do as I say.

I realise there will be many of you who would never consider voting LD, and more of you who will flame me for suggesting a tone of voice has nothing to do with whether you vote one way or another, but this is someone who is talking like she wants to take over the world, and she's going to need to use every weapon in her arsenal.

While I don't see a problem with learning how to slow down, the whole idea that women have to have deeper voices etc. is just falling in line with the patriarchy. We shouldn't be trying to conform to the male style of management (or speaking, or whatever), we should be trying to make the traditional feminine style more accepted. We need to develop our own framework.

I agree that Thatcher sounded very false and her original voice would sometimes break through. It's a shame that there is so much focus o prese tation rather than substance.

Cwen - well her message is clear. Vote LD and you’re voting to revoke A50. So if enough people did vote for her, then that’s a new mandate to Remain - now that the reality of Brexit has emerged.

Just because the voting system is stacked against them, is no reason not to vote for your principles.

I'm sure everyone something to improve on, but why would you focus on that? I'd be more concerned on the lies coming from Johnson & Cummings, or Corbyn's inability to do anything.

They say a vote for them is a vote for remain but they also said no to tuition fees. You can say anything (in whatever voice) but what does the evidence tell you about them sticking to what they say?

Imagine saying this about a man.

Yeah, like Ed Miliband for example. Very hard to take seriously, in part because of his voice and manner of speaking.

See, wasn't that hard really...

I think Mrs Thatcher had an awful speaking voice in spite of, or more likely because of, the elocution lessons. It always seemed that she was desperate not to revert to her original accent, so every word was very carefully articulated, and sounded so artificial. She was one of the most successful politicians of modern times. She took steps to lower the pitch of her voice which helped her ability to get the message across. Sad as it is Jo Swinson needs to do the same. Like it or not politicians have to put on a performance that convinces people. Jo is much better in the Commons but not many people watch PMQs as obsessively as I do.
Imo Harriet Harman is an excellent public speaker. Why on earth is she not the Labour leader?

^well her message is clear. Vote LD and you’re voting to revoke A50. So if enough people did vote for her, then that’s a new mandate to Remain - now that the reality of Brexit has emerged.

Just because the voting system is stacked against them, is no reason not to vote for your principles^
But what principles @no42? Beyond remain, what is there? She seems to have none. The party are accepting any old misogynist homophobe right winger. She’s extremely unlikely get enough seats to form a majority, (I think they all are - hung parliament again is likely I’d say) and if she needs to form a coalition it’s obvious it would be with the Tories - I think she’s even said as much. No way would I vote for anyone who might enable the Tories to hang on to power.

Yeah fair play they have a clear message (so do the Brexit party though!) but it comes across to me as a somewhat delusional one - they’re not going to get a majority, so what are they actually going to do in the much more likely event of a hung parliament, where they could be kingmaker? They could be saying they would support a Labour government (doesn’t have to be a coalition, confidence & supply would work more in their favour) to get a second referendum and therefore offer a realistic pathway for remain voters, rather than just be idealistic but impractical.

I disagree btw that the voting system is no reason not to vote for your principles. Sometimes tactical voting is the only way to vote against the worst option.

Italic fail. Oh well.
And her voice is irrelevant to any of it.

She was one of the most successful politicians of modern times. She took steps to lower the pitch of her voice which helped her ability to get the message across.

And what a valuable message that turned out to be.

You must be fucking kidding me

And what a valuable message that turned out to be That's not the point as you well know.

@derxa, I think that admiring the manner of Thatcher's vocal delivery of some of the most destructive policies that this country has ever had is a bit like admiring the some element of the engineering of the tank that's about to crush you.

There’s a difference between admiring and observing that a technique is effective, though.

@derxa, I think that admiring the manner of Thatcher's vocal delivery of some of the most destructive policies that this country has ever had is a bit like admiring the some element of the engineering of the tank that's about to crush you. I didn't vote for her but millions did. People make a judgement. Can I envisage this person as PM? As someone said upthread people couldn't imagine Milliband as PM and he lost the election.

I don't find her voice shrill at all. And yes I liked her dress. And shoes.
I think she's deluded, if she thinks that many people are going to vote...... but.....

I'd like voice coaching though!

I am a voice coach.

This is a common issue among women - people being put off because they sound shrill the more passionate they get. A similar thing happened to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in “Knock Down The House” in a public debate against that Crowley man who was the incumbent in the district. He definitely used her relative immaturity and inexperience to try to undermine her.

Thatcher did have coaching to lower her voice: but importantly, she also altered her accent entirely independently before ever coming in contact with a voice coach. I suspect she did that at Oxford. Those almost heightened RP tones made her more acceptable to the conservative heartlands than any Lincolnshire vowels ever could have.

That said: I commented that I thoughts Swinson performed well on Marr and remarked on it to my husband. But he disagreed: saying he thought she just wasn’t a serious candidate to lead the country. It wasn’t because of the substance of what she was saying - I suspect part of it was her voice, combined with how she was dressed, her posture - the whole package. Ocasio-Cortez points out that how they present themselves in the public eye is much more an issue for women than for men. And I think that’s true. Look at the untidy mess that is Boris, yet somehow he gets away with it.

Imo Harriet Harman is an excellent public speaker i agree. Apparently she's in line for Bercow's job

YANBU. Jo lacks principles so whatever she sounds like she's not getting my vote.

Am I the only person who watched Jo Swinson today and didn't notice either her voice or her dress?

@HannahLee, I admit I just saw a short clip where Elizabeth Warren was doing a sort of rallying cry and it sounded a bit lame because her voice wasn't carrying well at all, I'm sure it's not so much of an issue in a more sober debate and I hope my passing impression isn't shared by many, maybe it was a bad mic.

Piglet89

I am a voice coach.

This is a common issue among women - people being put off because they sound shrill the more passionate they get.

This is why I can't bear (most) female sports commentators. They can be as descriptive and insightful as you like but as soon as anything exciting happens, the pitch of their voices is almost painful to hear.