Allergy info on restaurant menus

[grumiosmum]

I was shocked to see the lukewarm industry response to calls for better labelling on menus following the latest tragedy arising from Byron Burger.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/14/restaurants-reject-owen-carey-family-call-for-allergy-labelling-on-menus

In several European countries allergen labelling on menus is mandatory - they use a letter code. DS is coeliac, and while it's not life threatening, if he accidentally eats gluten it makes him very ill. We find this menu labelling very clear & helpful, and most restaurants where we go are family-owned not changed, so it can't be that onerous.

I guess it's not an EU policy, or we'd have it here too, but I don't think it would be that hard to adopt.

Here, DS has to ask staff every time - unless items are identified as GF on the menu, which they are sometimes (like vegan & veggie).

Anyone who sells food should be able to produce a list of all the ingredients.

It's that simple. I know some restaurants are very good - and can produce a list of all the ingredients on request. Not just the allergens that they have to by current law - but a list of all the ingredients so someone can make a choice.

A café near me has a sign that says all of their products may contain any or all known allergens. Nice and simple.

A café near me has a sign that says all of their products may contain any or all known allergens

That's a remarkably unhelpful sign.

What struck me was the spokespersons response to why the wording on the menu was tiny, on the back and printed blue on black. It was along the lines of ‘tough shit’.

Penners99 that wouldn't help DS, as he'd never be able to eat there.

chomalunga the law states already they have to produce a list on request. DS has had to ask at Costa coffee to see the allergen book before ordering a hot chocolate, and it's as big as the bible.

I'm saying they should simply adopt the system they have in European countries, where every menu item has a letter code next to it denoting allergens - A for nuts, B for milk, C for gluten ... etc.

So much easier.

I have a life threatening allergy, it’s scary how many restaurants don’t actually know what their meals contain and don’t know if the food is handled with other known allergens during packing etc when the suppliers give them that info.

A café near me has a sign that says all of their products may contain any or all known allergens. Nice and simple.

How incredibly lazy and what a massive cop out! Basically don't use us if you care about allergens because they may kill you and we don't want to bother with you.

I'm saying they should simply adopt the system they have in European countries, where every menu item has a letter code next to it denoting allergens - A for nuts, B for milk, C for gluten

There are many allergies that aren't on the standard 14 list.
I can see that would be useful for people with common allergies.

Would it help to have a copy of the menu which lists every ingredient for each meal? If you have an allergy you could ask to see it and check your meal?

I think it would be very difficult for any restaurants to guarantee no cross contamination unless the whole meal was made from scratch to order. Something like a burger for eg you would have to clean down the griddle before cooking it, and for chips you would have to empty the whole deep fat fryer and use fresh oil. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but I can see why places are very nervous about the possibility of cross contamination.

I think it would be very difficult for any restaurants to guarantee no cross contamination unless the whole meal was made from scratch to order

I can see that restaurants can't guarantee cross - contamination, although they can take steps to reduce it.

They should be capable of easily producing a list of all the ingredients, without making the person feel awkward when asking.

There have been cases where a restaurant has used ready mixed ingredients and the contents have been changed by the supplier but no one looked/notified the outlets.

You just can’t be certain can you?

that wouldn't help DS, as he'd never be able to eat there.

It would help him though as he’d know he couldn’t safely eat there and could therefore find somewhere else.

I don’t blame places for having signs up saying outright that they can’t offer any guarantees around allergens, at least they’re being honest so people with allergies know that it’s not a place they can eat.

And I say that as someone who can only eat in certain places due to avoiding certain products; I’m not allergic, it’s a decision I’ve made, but I don’t get aggrieved if I try somewhere and find that there’s nothing I can eat, I ring ahead of time to make sure and if not I find somewhere else. Not every establishment has to offer a dish for every dietary requirement. It’s okay for places to say ‘we can’t promise that there’s been no cross contamination’ upfront.

I understand that in chain restaurants for example there’s an expectation of being able to find an ingredients list and receive assurances about allergens as it’s often standardised across restaurants, but there are plenty of smaller vendors like cafes, greasy spoons, burger vans etc. selling food which may have neither the inclination or manpower to ensure they are also able to provide for people with allergens and specific dietary requirements.

At a certain point you have to accept not everywhere is suitable for everyone.

There have been cases where a restaurant has used ready mixed ingredients and the contents have been changed by the supplier but no one looked/notified the outlets.

Exactly.

It’s the responsible thing to do to make potential customers aware that there’s no guarantee food is allergen free or suitable for a specific diet. When you consider the grave consequences of informing someone something is allergen free when it isn’t, I don’t at all blame restaurants for not wanting to make that guarantee unless they actively choose to do so. I’d much rather hear ‘sorry, we don’t have any dishes we can guarantee are suitable for people with this allergy/halal/vegan needs’ if they’re not confident they can guarantee it (including up the chain of suppliers).

there are plenty of smaller vendors like cafes, greasy spoons, burger vans etc. selling food which may have neither the inclination or manpower to ensure they are also able to provide for people with allergens and specific dietary requirements.

My point is that european restaurants manage to do this - so why not here?

For the common allergens anyway.

And the ones who don't bother at all, aren't just missing out on DS's custom but also his family & friends as we will always pick a restaurant that takes these things seriously if we are with him.

There are no guarantees. Even if you ask - as in the case if a colleague with a severe egg allergy - they don’t always know (in her case yes, there waseggs in the dish and she ended up being taken out of the restaurant in a stretcher with her throat closing and her face all black).

No guarantees. I wouldn’t risk it.

I just reread the article and see that they’re actually calling for allergen info to be present on the menu itself, rather than asking staff for the allergen list.

I think that’s unreasonable to expect. It’s just not practical for the standard menu to list every single known allergen on it. And menus are often printed with mistakes. A local Chinese to us has the vegetarian symbol next to dishes with oyster sauce in.

I find it hard to see how instances like this can be truly avoided tbh, in a busy restaurant with a busy kitchen and usually minimum wage workers making food with messages passed on by minimum wage serving staff, who may mishear or misunderstand what’s being said. If I had a life threatening allergy to dairy I wouldn’t personally trust a seventeen year old waiter’s word that a burger was dairy free, even if the menu didn’t state it was cooked in buttermilk. I’d request the allergen menu, ask to speak to the manager and/or the chef to drive home how important it was. And even then I think I’d personally be reluctant to eat somewhere that wasn’t a vegan restaurant because dairy is in so many things and there’s every chance of cross contamination in the kitchen or at the suppliers too.

These are very sad cases and it’s correct to ask if anything can be changed for the future, but I don’t think expecting restaurants to include every allergen on menus is going to be particularly effective as it’d require reprinting every time a supplier changed, mistakes and errors will be made in printing, and people can already request an allergen list.

A café near me has a sign that says all of their products may contain any or all known allergens. Nice and simple.

It's understandable though. If you look at most packaging of food you can freely buy it states "may contain traces of x" because x is somewhere in the factory and there is a tiny chance of cross contamination.
As soon as x is in a kitchen or factory, there just always is the chance rest was at some point cross contaminated no matter how careful someone is.

In the case of Byron burgers though... If you marinade your chicken in buttermilk, why the hell wouldn't they say so on the menu? It's not like it's some super secret trick...

I went to Chiquito's yesterday, we'd been asked if anyone on our table had any allergies twice before the drinks arrived. Some places are really trying but it's variable.

My son has coeliacs and we found getting hold on safe food when we were in France more difficult than here.

And the ones who don't bother at all, aren't just missing out on DS's custom but also his family & friends as we will always pick a restaurant that takes these things seriously if we are with him.

Yep. Just like a restaurant that doesn’t offer dishes that I would choose to eat misses out on the custom of me and my partner, along with our friends and family when going out for a meal. Doesn’t mean I’m going to be annoyed that the local steakhouse doesn’t offer meals I’m ethically willing to eat. Surely that’s down to the business to decide? I wouldn’t lose any sleep if I were you about the profits of a restaurant that doesn’t cater to your requirements when there are so many alternatives (and eating out isn’t a mandatory thing).

There aren’t any guarantees, even in the EU where this is in force it doesn’t mean that there haven’t been errors we haven’t heard about or that haven’t yet led to an injury or fatality.

If someone decides that eating out is worth the risk they’ve calculated then that’s a perfectly acceptable choice but it’d be naive to think you can have a cast iron assurance you absolutely won’t be subject to an error or mistake. It’s not about whether it should happen, it’s about the fact that mistakes do happen, and it’s your life you’re gambling with.

Is this the case where the guy had epi pens at home he was supposed to carry but he hadn’t taken it with him?

The problem with coding on menus is that it can't cover every known food allergy (of which there are probably thousands) and would quickly become confusing, potentially leading to restaurants making mistakes.

The problem with listing all ingredients is that showing something does not contain X does not mean it has never come in to contact with X and therefore may give a false sense of security.

The best thing to do would be to have a member of staff (like a manager or chef) specially trained in allergy requirements on every shift. They can provide better advice.

Just like a restaurant that doesn’t offer dishes that I would choose to eat misses out on the custom of me and my partner, along with our friends and family when going out for a meal. Doesn’t mean I’m going to be annoyed that the local steakhouse doesn’t offer meals I’m ethically willing to eat

I understand that no place can guarantee to be free of any allergens. I get that. I do expect that a restaurant or a cafe can produce a list of what the ingredients are in a meal without fussing about it, making the customer feel awkward or difficult.

The problem with listing all ingredients is that showing something does not contain X does not mean it has never come in to contact with X and therefore may give a false sense of security

I think you have to balance things and be allowed to take that choice - no place can guarantee that no allergens are present and people with allergies know that nothing can be guaranteed.

A balanced approach is required - there's no reason I can see why a restaurant cannot list the main allergens against each dish, using a letter or number code, as they do in some European countries. It's really not that hard.

Obviously there is always a risk of cross contamination - and if you have a potentially fatal allergy (or a less common one) then you should also interrogate the staff carefully too.

If the Byron menu had listed dairy on the menu against the chicken dish that killed that poor lad he would not have ordered it.

Had a good experience with a pub this weekend - they checked ingredients for DD, cooked something off menu (plain chicken instead of nuggets) and had a big spreadsheet which they brought for me to check when she wanted pudding. It was a Greene King pub. They even mentioned the risk of cross contamination from the deep fat fryer for chips, though fortunately her allergy's not that severe. I wish everywhere was that good!