Should Private School fee payers get a tax rebate

[Pamplemousecat]

Just following on from another thread. If a child isn’t in the state system should the parents still have to pay the proportion of tax that is taken for education?

To my slight shame we have paid for some private health care. Exceptional circs and we count ourselves lucky that we could afford to. But never in a million years would I think I deserve a rebate for it!

It wouldn’t be 2 per school. Because you can guarantee we wouldn’t be spreading our dc around. We’d just buy our way into the better state schools, and push others down a level. It wouldn’t be my dc at the less desirable state, it would be the average mc mumsnetter’s that would now miss out.

So possibly it would improve things at the lower end of state education, but it wouldn’t be the private school children levelling it up. And tbh I don’t see mrs and mr house price catchment, church school or grammar entrance being in favour of that.

Possibly an argument for society regarding power and old boys networks, but it would be several generations to find out if the old Etonians had just become old Kensington comp boys.

“We’d just buy our way into the better state schools”

How would you do that? Compulsory purchase of poor people’s houses?

the tax status of independent schools is ludicrous and the exemptions (and charitable status) should be removed. It's just not correct. They're not charities, however many (or few) burseries they offer, or however many poor people they let into their sports halls on every 5th saturday.

The suggestion that you have no choice but to go private is a poor justifcation. Many people have no excuse. But there should certainly be no tax rebate for those people who make the choice. That makes a mockery of the whole tax system.

But tax money also goes to private schools via their charitable status.

You can choose to send you private school or use the state system. Personally I think private schools should be abolished and then the MPs who send their kids to state schools may care a bit more about what happens to them.

In regards to your post OP if you start this system what about people who choose not to have children. Those healthy people who never use the NHS. Those that use a private dentist or have BUPA. It would be a minefield.

I will happily pay tax for those less fortunate are able to access benefits or healthcare because one day I may need them too.

no choice*

In My Glorious Reign, MPs will not be allowed to use private education or private health.

IMO yes, as they aren't using a school place so why should they pay for it?

A lot of talk of the NHS is also increasingly privatised. How much longer will it be “free” at point of use? I know in our area the GP service is shockingly bad and people are not able to get through on the phone. More and more people are using private services where they can afford it. Or they just don’t bother seeing a GP and go to A&E for routine stuff. Also why is there such a requirement for private schools in Britain? You don’t find this in other countries it just doesn’t exist in the same way. Certainly not in France or Germany. If the government hadn’t fucked up so badly over the years maybe we’d have a better health service and schools that people wanted to send their kids to. Maybe there wouldn’t be a market for private education and we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

I agree with you so much ^

@BertrandRussel. In My Glorious Reign, MPs will not be allowed to use private education or private health.
Thank fuck we don’t have to worry about that!

In what respect do people think private schools have special tax status? They can only be taxed as charities if they operate as charities, as charities are defined in law.
Some I believe operate as companies; I assume those are taxed as corporations are taxed?

It's not the same for private healthcare btw - private healthcare is a top-up to the NHS, it's not used for everything. You can have BUPA or whatever, but if you're in a car accident or you need emergency surgery or you visit your GP then it's all the NHS. Private healthcare is useful for routine stuff with large waiting lists (like if you need a knee replacement), cosmetic procedures, or jumping to queue to see a particular specialist.

No, they should ban private schools and people should pay MORE taxes so that they actually function properly.

*state schools

@TheBigBallOfOil I believe the Schools are tested to ascertain their charitable status. They have to provide a certain number of bursaries and work with local communities on projects lending support/ resources/ facilities etc . They will also support a number of charities and fund raise for those

It wouldn’t be poor peoples houses because in most situations they aren’t in prime catchments. Or indeed compulsory purchase of anything. I’d just be doing exactly the same as many people do now, buying my way into catchment. Using my ample free time to practice my newly discovered religion. Using my privilege to give my dc an unfair disadvantage for the 11+. Exactly the same as many others already do.

Except my only competition would be those in a similar position or wealthier, so I’d just be displacing the least privileged of the middle classes that previously would have got a place.

Educated three DCs privately and have used private healthcare. No I do not agree with a rebate. I see it as the duty of everyone in the UK to help others where they can. I am beyond angry at the education cuts in Wales, I am now raising money for our local primary school because of the cuts they have suffered even though I am not in need of their services. Our children are our future, all of them.

Of course they should still pay tax.

I understand all that. The point is about how they operate. You can only be taxed as a charity if you operate as one and satisfy the relevant legal criteria.
No one would say I have a special tax status because my income and capital is taxed on the basis I’m an individual not a coporation. I get the tax treatment which accords with my legal status. It’s not “special treatment.”
Actually I would quite like to be taxed as a corporation.

@Pamplemousecat - why? Are you an MP?

Personally I’d like to see a quota enforced on mps in line with current education options. So only 7% of them allowed to come from private schools, and even then in line with the % that attend the likes of Eton. And same again with the other types of school, including the 33% quoted that attend below average state schools. There’s no point in doing it if one privileged background is exchanged for another. And neither would I want a choice of Corbyns all attempting to out communist each other.

@TheBigBallOfOil may have a point actually. A quick google - not exactly high academia, I know - brought up this www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/11/private-schools-tax-charitable-status-eton-dulwich-college
As usual the biggest names get the biggest cuts. But surely that means that the impact of removing the tax breaks will not have the worst implications some suggest, and perhaps we can all agree that the least deserving cases should not get the largest tax breaks?

It may be also be relevant that the tax payable would go to Local Councils, not central government, and therefore should be boosting the local purses at a time when local councils have been forced to become more dependent on local business rates rather than a central government settlement. We need someone who knows full financial details on here. But, that would seem to indicate a double whammy for local councils - forced onto local business rates by central government, who then cut the number (and affluence) of local businesses eligible to pay those taxes.

It's not about paying tax as a form of charity to those less well off. We pay tax not just to educate our own children but to educate society because an educated society works better.