That replying to work emails on the train IS working?

[managedmis]

Jury seems to be out on this one at work so thought I'd ask on her.

I commute 2 hours per day to get to work, an hour there and back. I have my work email on my phone and reply /send emails when I'm on the train. Note that my role is admin based, so always loads of emails to respond to etc.

I consider that this is work.

What do you think?

Can you set out more context as we all seem to be going round in circles.

If you're job requires you to be at your desk at 9am and leave at 6pm with an hour for lunch. Then you can't reasonably claim to leave at 5pm or start at 10am just because you spent an hour on the train replying to e-mails. That's not how it works and if you feel aggrieved by it then spend your commute listening to an audio book.

*your

Commuting time is not work time.

If you CHOOSE to work during this time, that's up to you. Personally, I'd switch off my phone and read a book.

I think it is working, yes.
But if you want it included as part of your working day then you need to have that set out - if your contract (assuming you have one) states that you need to be in the workplace from X til Y hour every day, then you can't use the commute as part of your working day.
But if that isn't the case, and you would be allowed to work from elsewhere (home for e.g.) with flexible hours in the workplace, then it should be counted as working hours.

DH's job is only partially office-based, he spends a lot of time on the road getting to and from customers, but that's part of his work time. He takes business calls throughout (Bluetooth handsfree etc) his journey, including when he's travelling into the actual office.
But he's paid a salary, not an hourly wage, so his hours aren't really relevant.

Are you on a salary or an hourly wage?

If it was me, I would either try to negotiate an extra payment for out of hours if it's regular work you're doing, or stop replying to emails in your own time.

I don't think anyone is contesting that it is NOT working. Of course it is. The circumstances aren't clear. The issue hasn't been outlined.

It is working but if you want to clock it you will have to agree that as flexi working.

You are doing work, but your commute isn’t classed as your time at work. If you want it to be, you need to negotiate this with your manager.

Answering emails in public places is frowned on where I work. An urgent email or a response to my manager is fine, especially if it's done discreetly on my work mobile. Sitting on a train using a tablet or laptop for an hour would be a security breach because of the risk of someone looking over my shoulder.

Yes it is working

But I dont think you can count it towards your working hours as it's your choice, and you are not available for other parts of your role (eg taking phone calls, meetings etc)

For instance if you are contracted to work 9 - 5 and are office based, I dont think you can turn up 10 - 4 because you argue you're still working on the train. However I would expect your employer to take it into account in terms of having a good attitude and to give you flexibility if you need to leave early etc...just not every single day

I’d never include it as work time. There is one thing checking your emails to get ready for the day as well as faffing on your phone etc. You can’t really pretend it’s part of your working day as there is often disruption, no guarantee of a seat etc. It’s a bit different if you are in first on a long distance train though.

It kind of is, but your basically choosing to work in your own time.

Of course it's work. But you can't count it as work time (unless you have very progressive employer). It should mean that you can leave on time without eyebrows being raised though. I used to leave on time (or about 2 mins early so I could catch a particular train) and then check late emails on the train home.

I hope you ensure nobody can see your emails. I remember sitting next to someone who was looking at documents with "highly confidential" on them. I took a photo on my phone. She was oblivious (I deleted the photo, didn't do anything with it).

Are you trying to claim more money you do it out of choice so no

As others have said, I don’t consider that the commute is part of work time, but I can’t see the issue with doing a bit extra on the train if you need to get stuff done. Who has called you up on working on the commute? Have you tried to claim for the extra hours? I’m wondering if you are leaving the office early and then working on the train so you get home earlier but have still done all the work you need to for the day? I don’t see anything wrong with this, unless others are having to stay in the office to cover being there (I know some offices have a minimum number of employees needed in the office through working hours).

Answering emails for your job is doing work.

If you are doing work then you are working, right?

I don't understand how something can count as "not working" if you are doing something for your job... Which is work.

But then I don't get the obsession with hours spent working in general unless you need an accurate record of billable hours or are paid hourly. I've always just had a list of stuff to do and have done it in the time it takes to get done.

I feel like I probably don't have the same concept of work that others do.

Depends on the context of the discussion. It is working but it is expected at my work to be responsive and contactable including in my own time. No overtime paid but salaries are good enough.
Work provide my only phone (and pay the entire bill), so that emails can be responded to at all times.

I think it depends a lot on the nature and seniority of your job. If it's the kind of job where you're expected to regularly work beyond contracted hours, commuting time is a sensible way to do this. If it's a junior role where you would not normally expect to take work home with you, then you shouldn't do it during your commute. Either way, I wouldn't expect your commute to count as paid work time.

Havent read full thread but...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-45333270

the BBC says it is! You'd have to check with your employer before counting it as 'work time' but as an employer I wouldn't give a crap if people were on the train/toilet/sat by the desk when they were 'working' as long as they were reliable and got to the job done! In this day and age of flexible working I think its fine.

Wether this forms part of your working dat or not, depends on job and company.

My working day is 8-5. Today I came in at 7.20 to get parkes somewhere near the office and started working.

That wouldnt mean I can just toddle off 40 mins early.

Sending emails on the training is working. However, it doesnt mean it forms part of your working day and can add it to you hours worked.

Thata like choosing to log on and do some emails when you get home a s expecting to be paid for them or finish early the next day.

If there is a big issue at my company and ask me to work on a Saturday, from home they will give me, say, the next monday off.

I cant just decide to work Saturday and not go in monday, just cause I worked at home.

@managedmis

This is solely - I think - down to the relationships with your "management". I saw a post on this thread that said that 15 minutes was credited to you for every e-mail dealt with out of hours and that seems extremely fair. In my view this needs to be discussed with your line management and probably put in writing. To some degree perhaps it depends on your status in the organisation. If you do not try, and if you do not get some kind of positive response then I would be tempted simply not to do them. The downside is - of course - that you would then have to deal with them [added stress?] during working hours.

It is amazing what you can arrange. I had a very long commute and a 600am train! I negotiated with manager that I would actually work on train using computer and paperwork on table [actually had computer locked to wrist! - Very Jane Bond?] and that I would do 10 hours work each day [including 90 minutes overall on train] so that I did 4 days a week and had every other Friday and Monday off. Needed to be flexible of course when needed but worked fine

Wow so many replies.

To answer some questions
Yes, I 'count' it as work time.
Yes, most of the time the emails have to be responded to quickly.
My time is flexible as to when I'm in the office, however availability online is expected.
I'd say 50% of the job is actually email based.

I’m freelance so have to keep a note of all the time I’m doing work, even if it’s just 15 minutes or so at a time - this would include answering work emails on the train. Or, as happened today, answering emails in Aldi.

I saw a post on this thread that said that 15 minutes was credited to you for every e-mail dealt with out of hours and that seems extremely fair.

^

I think 15 minutes is super generous!

Fwiw I haven't been 'told' if it is or isn't working, this was just a conversation that was had in the office and wasn't specific to my job.