To Have Limited Sympathy for the Australian Vloggers Detained in Iran?

[NikeDeLaSwoosh]

Obviously I have the usual human sympathy for young people going something so terribly traumatic, but seriously, what were they thinking?

It seems from the limited information currently available that they had deliberately planned their travels to encompass counties with a 'bad rep' for tourists apparently to disprove those reputations.

Then to fly a drone? How incredibly naive.

The tensions in the Straights of Hormuz have been well-documented in the press, and the plight of Nazanin Zachariah-Ratcliffe is never far from the public eye, how could they not have been aware of this?

It saddens me so much when instagrammers risk their lives, liberty, and for women, their chance of motherhood just for the insta-likes.

That poor couple, but gosh what a foolish thing to have done.

AIBU?

I do wonder how much blame lies with society in general though, people (generic) do seem to lap up this kind of content, and the element of danger seems to be a big part of the attraction. As a pp suggested, a similar trip to Spain just wouldn't be the same.

I actually saw some go pro footage of a mountain biker doing an astonishly dangerous descent of a mountain - the path was less than a foot in width and the gradient was horrifying. The presenters of the show were hailing the biker as some sort of hero, which just serves to encourage risk taking like this.

Not sure there is an answer to this though.

I have little sympathy. They basically decided to take a trip to prove that certain countries’ bad reputations were unwarranted. Turns out that all that official advice, etc is not bollocks. Now the relevant diplomatic services (who issued warnings to try and prevent this) will have to take risks and expend political capital to deal with it. All because if the arrogance of two stupid people who thought that they were so special that they could operate outside the norms. It actually pisses me right off.

Related, I spent a huge amount of time touring the Gulf region before the Arab Spring. Many of the archeological sites are breathtaking and I count myself very lucky to have seen them, especially as some have been destroyed since. I toyed with a guided trip to Iran a few years back, having taken a very short trip to Tehran on business. The FCO advice was not great so I didn’t go. It was acceptable for a 48 hour business trip with governmental support but not for a tourist. It’s a such basic requirement if you want to visit these places.

I have some sympathy for their current situation, but I can't help but feel they've been incredibly foolish or arrogant.

The idea that anyone would wake up thinking they are more special and immune to world issues than anyone else is at best naive and at worst stunning arrogance.

See also people who make bomb jokes in airports or public transport and then seem surprised when they're detained or questioned over it.

I suppose they thought they could talk their way out of it because they're "such lovely people". Agree they have been very stupid indeed but they don't deserve to be incarcerated unless they actually were spies.

Yes, I think arrogance is a good word to describe conduct like this.

'I'm aware of the rules, but they don't apply to me/I'm above the law/it'll never happen to me because I'm somehow special'

This kind of reasoning...

The word stupidity suggests ignorance, which doesn't seem to be the case here - this couple are actively engaged with the world, both through travel and social media so (IMO) would have been fully cognisant of the risk they were taking.

It really is an excellent set up for a spy though, isn't it? Proof of a cross continental jaunt, all documented, all photographed. A believable defence of 'but we were just travelling, trying to make you look good, we didn't know we couldn't use the drone here...'

I think it's more likely that they are spies than tourists. Either way, I feel for them now.

You'd have to be made of stone to have no sympathy at all for them. A decade in an Iranian Jail? What an awful prospect.

How certain are we that they're not spies? It's a bloody good cover isn't it? Clearly very believable.

YABU. Your opinion screams of the same cr*p like women shouldn't show off flesh otherwise they are asking for sexual assault.

You're completely ignorant. They have gone to try and raise awareness and I feel bad for them being detained however they have raised awareness to these issues and we are talking about it.

You have to wonder if they actually are spies, because the idiocy of being a Westerner flying a drone without a permit in Iran is so vast, it's almost impossible to think that there isn't a more subversive purpose behind it.

Either way, I hope they are released soon. And if they are idiots and not spies, I hope that for their own sakes some kindly family member confiscates their passports.

They have gone to try and raise awareness !!!!!

Have you any awareness at all? It is not like the Middle East is an unknown world. Shit! It is such an old area of conflict that way back in the 1980s it was on the Modern History syllabus of secondary schools in the UK! Think about that... pre-internet there was SO MUCH NEWS on Iraq/Iran that exam boards felt safe having it permanently on their syllabus!

Nothing new will be gained from their breathtaking stupidity. A lot of people will expend a lot of time, effort and diplomatic currency to get them home!

@ButterflyOne1

Can you expand a little on your comparison with sexual assault please? I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.

How certain are we that they're not spies? It's a bloody good cover isn't it? Clearly very believable.

The thing is they could be "spies" without realising it. They're clearly not the brightest and best of their generation, and it's all to easy for a friendly stranger in a bar to helpfully suggest they could try this location, or that location for the best picture or video for their awesome vlog. Off they trot, get their footage (with a drone ?!!!!) which is handily uploaded publicly (so friendly strangers agency gets to see them without even being in the country). When the Men With Guns turn up ... well who really cares. Certain not the now-in-possession-of-useful-footage intelligence agency.

It's what British intelligence do all the time, and I doubt it's unique.

Remember those British men who travelled to Iran to take photos of ships? Who wouldn't travel all the way to Iran to take photos of ships FGS? That was several years ago, presumably they're home by now. They said it was their hobby...

You're completely ignorant. They have gone to try and raise awareness and I feel bad for them being detained however they have raised awareness to these issues and we are talking about it.

Awareness of what? What are 'these issues'?

Iran is constantly in the news for its persistent violation of human rights, violation of international laws, and attempts to become a nuclear nation. It doesn't require two naive twenty somethings to Instagram a risky holiday for the benefit of their 20,000 followers to put those issues in the news.

What other issues are we talking about here? If you can't even name them, it suggests they've done a poor job of raising awareness.

Yep, because me making an early morning mistake re Iraq and Iran is exactly the same thing as making a decision to fly a drone over Tehran.

Whoopsy, an early morning mistake confusing two completely different countries and cultures that have even been at war with each other previously.

No OP, I reckon you give your head a wobble.

I am amused at a post accusing others of ignorance whilst making SUCH an ignorant mistake.

Iran not Iraq? Never mind 'same same' but different, right? If you are commenting critically (and you DO have a point there somewhere) on geo political issues, maybe it's a good idea to get your own geo political facts straight.

They were foolish, but are now paying a very high price

I feel lots of sympathy for them, what an awful experience

@Whatquestionmark

Well, I'm glad I've provided you some amusement this morning; from the tone of your post, it certainly sounds like you needed it

@GlasshouseStoneThrower I expect they thought they'd be the ones who would be different, to challenge assumptions etc.

It's a noble enough idea, but goodness me what a price they've paid.

SerendipityJane

interesting theory! maybe they were used

or maybe they ARE spies, I mean, the buttock-flashing insta-poses are a very believable cover.

Like I said, I have some sympathy. I was foolish/arrogant when younger and came very close to getting into an awful lot of trouble, lucky for me, the police official abroad dealing with me was an older woman with maternal instinct who said "I don't know if you are a criminal or just very stupid, but I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt as I think you are just very stupid" and she let me go.

Agreed @SolitudeAtAltitude

I wonder if that's why this story has resonated so much; we've all done foolish things when younger -arrogance of youth and all that.

It's just that most don't have such awful consequences.

Interesting theory that they are inadvertent spies though, I can see how that might be the case. They were apparently 'just' filming landscapes, that might be of great strategic importance to a hostile state.

NikeDeLaSwoosh Not a single one of your posts suggests that you are well informed on geo political issues in the ME. That's ok, not many are, but rather undermines your OP. You are judging these youngsters harshly for being ignorant and arrogant yet come across just as ignorant and arrogant. FWIW

Whatquestionmark OP hasn't been drone-flying in Iran though, has she?

@Whatquestionmark Thanks for your opinion; I'll be sure to give it the appropriate amount of consideration