Have people stopped giving a shit when crossing the road?

[whywei]

Twice in a matter of days I've had to slam my breaks on to avoid hitting a pedestrian crossing the road whilst on the phone. Both times neither were looking at traffic but just in their own bubble walkng as slow as possible (guy today was even smiling to himself). I'm talking big roads - in fact, I remember an old man dying in the exact spot I came across today (when I was a child).

I'm usually a live and let live kind of person but this seems to be happening more and more.

Do people have no self-preservation instinct?

I bought a dashcam last year I look on it as insurance for random events

I did the same. Had far too many "near misses" with cyclists and pedestrians who don't give a shit and just do what the hell they want whilst in their own arrogant self centred bubble. What settled it for me was when some crazy mother pushed her pushchair out between two parked vans - there was absolutely no way she had a clue whether there was traffic or not, and despite slamming on my brakes at only 20 mph, the pram was literally less than an inch from the front of my car. Even crazier, she didn't bat an eyelid, just continued staring at her phone and carried on walking across!

As a driver, I agree that this has got worse. I do, however, think the way we prioritise the car over pedestrians needs to change and the onus shouldn't be on pedestrians to seek outa designated crossing point, stop their phone conversations and speed up to make sure they cross before a car is upon them. People travelling sustainably (on foot, bike, public transport) should have priority over private vehicles 100% of the time

I agree with this but I also think everyone should get off their phones when they are travelling - whether on foot or on wheels.

However, there is a picture of our streets which shows how little space is given to pedestrians - basically makes the roads a gaping chasm with the tiny pavements alongside. Drivers have far too much space so there does need to be a bit more give and take on the part of the drivers.

I knew that the Highway Code says cars should give priority to pedestrians when crossing side roads, I've had a few arguments with both drivers and cyclists who've expected me to disappear when I've been half way across, but why the hell is it "should" and not "must"?

I posted a couple of weeks ago.

I live near a tourist town with crossings every 50-100 yards or so on the main road.

People wander across where ever they like without a care in the world.

I'd love to equip my car with a super soaker and squirt them.

Yes, I need to look out for pedestrians and I do - but Pedestrians also need to not act like dicks on the road.

Getting squirted would be better than hit!

I have noticed this recently. I don't drive but I have been a passenger and see people either walk really slowly across a crossing because they are looking at their phone. Or they just step out anywhere because they are looking at their phone. I am amazed at how many mothers push their pram onto the road without looking. When somebody is using a phone with no regard to road sense but DH gives them a large toot on the horn. This gives them a shock, some react sheepishly, some look annoyed they have been jolted out of their reverie. Teenagers are the worse. They have been brought up with checking in on social media all the time so that overrides everything for them.

Isn't jaywalking a criminal offence. Walking around glued to a phone within awareness of your surroundings is surely the very definition.

I am considering getting air horns for my car - simply to scare the s**t out of teenagers when they wander across staring at you as if daring you to hit them. One blast of an air horn will make them wake up...

Some poor bloke walked out in front of me this morning. Not on his phone or anything, but it was 7.30, he'd just left his house and I think he was half asleep.

He was so shocked, I really felt for him. He mouthed an apology and hopefully will pay a bit more attention in future.

Afterwards though, it struck me that I was going up a steepish hill, and had it been level, I might not have been able to stop in time.

I call these the "catwalkers" they just strut across the road like it's their own personal cat walk.

I've taught my neice don't put your life in the hands of someone who essentially has a weapon (car) don't just strut out expecting that it's a good driver you're stepping out Infront of.

When somebody is using a phone with no regard to road sense but DH gives them a large toot on the horn

Hoping he doesn’t do this at the people you complain are walking slowly across crossings, phone or not! If they’re at a pedestrian crossing then they’re not obliged to speed up and scamper out of your way.

It really worries me when people cross roads without looking or walk out into traffic assuming it’ll stop. You can’t ever assume a driver has seen you even when they’re looking in your direction.

There is blame on both sides.

You shouldn't have to slam on your brakes in a built up area...the speed limit SHOULD be a maximum of 20. Drivers do forget how dangerous the weapon they are sitting in is. I see dozens of drivers every day doing dangerous things, accelerating away from traffic lights, slamming on brakes, tailgating, giving zero room to cyclists...where are they going that is so important they put themselves and others in danger.

Pedestrians with earphones do seem to be in some kind of dreamland. You should be extra vigilant as a pedestrian because car drivers aren't and if its pedestrian v car, the car wins every time. The one that gets me is the parents who wheel their buggy out into the road like some kind of beacon to slow traffic. madness.

As a PP said. We 100% should be making towns and cities private vehicle free. Sustainable transport should have priority.

It's only a 'should' not a 'must' give way for the car, and it's only if they've already started crossing, but the principle is there.

That's true, but it is still prosecutable as careless/dangerous driving.

There are relatively few 'MUST' instructions in the highway code for pedestrians. I think the only ones are not walking on a motorway, at level crossings, loitering on a crossing and getting on to a moving vehicle.

Oh and 87% of motorists flout the law.

Oh and 87% of motorists flout the law.

So when you're in your coffin, you'll get a warm glow from thinking it wasn't your fault!

Given such statistics, and presumably the same will apply to cyclists flouting the law, surely pedestrians should show more awareness and attention. It's them who'll come off worst, so they must be a bit stupid not to take simple precautions such as actually looking where they're going. Do we really need Tufty's "stop, listen and look" to be broadcast again???

We 100% should be making towns and cities private vehicle free.

So buses, taxis, vans and lorries don't have accidents then???

In fact, from my observations, such "professional" drivers are just as bad, if not worse than private drivers, and the bigger your vehicle, the more likelihood of injuries being worse.

That's some victim blamey logic you've got going on there Kazzy.

I’ve noticed this, however I’ve also notice a lot of drivers not even looking out for pedestrians in the first place or going too fast in heavy pedestrian areas. The average pedestrian has to be more aware due to drivers flouting the rules of the road. I have a bright orange double pram and the amount of drivers who don’t “see” me is staggering. My son and I were almost hit when we were about to cross the street after getting the green guy. If I hadn’t seen the driver out of the corner of my eye, he would have killed my baby. Guess what he was doing.. Half-way reaching in the backseat, eyes upward at the ceiling. I was too shocked to have taken a picture and reported it.

This happened to me yesterday too
Was driving into town, stopped at a pelican crossing when the light went red, and a group of people crossed the road. Fine. Well done, you people understand basic road safety and how to use a pelican crossing - gold stars for you!!
Then the light turns green, car in front of me pulls away, I go to follow and a group of about 5 college students, a few wearing giant headphones just step right out in front of me, meaning I had to slam on my brakes, startling my 2 toddlers in the back and getting that horrible seatbelt slamming into my 39 week baby bump feeling
Not one of them even looked up to realise that they’d walked right out into traffic

@BigFatLiar
(The cyclist was also badly injured but didn't get damages from the jaywalker). So be careful as you drive along,you seem to be responsible now for jaywalkers safety.

Are you American? We don't have the word, or indeed the offence, of 'jaywalking' here. Because we don't totally prioritise cars over pedestrians.

I don't drive, walk everywhere, and the selfishness and recklessness of about half of the drivers I see is shocking.

(The cyclist was also badly injured but didn't get damages from the jaywalker)

If it's the case I'm thinking of, the cyclist was also negligent and there were numerous witnesses (pedestrians) saying that he was travelling too fast and arrogantly carried on riding even when he could see pedestrians in the road - he actually blew his air horn rather than brake and ended up slamming into his victim.

That's some victim blamey logic you've got going on there Kazzy.

Most "accidents" are avoidable by the actions of EITHER party. Even if you're the "victim", there are usually things you could have easily done to avoid being the victim. Yes, the other person is probably the cause, but that's of no comfort to the family/friends you leave behind.

Far better to avoid accidents in the first place by actually being aware of your surroundings and watching out for idiots, whether they're cyclists, drivers or even other pedestrians! There's no way that we'll ever eradicate the idiots amongst us, so we have to do whatever we can to protect ourselves.

If it's the case I'm thinking of, the cyclist was also negligent and there were numerous witnesses (pedestrians) saying that he was travelling too fast and arrogantly carried on riding even when he could see pedestrians in the road - he actually blew his air horn rather than brake and ended up slamming into his victim

Or you could read what the judge actually said:
- The cyclist sounded a loud airhorn attached to his road bike, as well as shouting, swerving and braking in a bid to avoid her.
- But the judge, Shanti Mauger, said only Ms Brushnett was entitled to a payout because she had sued and Mr Hazeldean had not.
- Ms Mauger ruled the cyclist was “a calm and reasonable road user”

Even on pedestrian crossings there is an expectation that you can just walk out, regardless of a vehicle that had no chance of stopping. I think some of it is lack of awareness or poor ability to estimate stopping distances. Pushing a pram out in front of you from between parked cars, 20 yards from a zebra crossing is plain stupid though. No excuse is possible for that.

On the other side, we've learned to not trust drivers on our nearest zebra crossing, even following all precautions. White van man appearing when we were half way across and blasting his horn, shouting abuse at my kids - you should be enough to scare anyone into being ultra cautious!

There's no way that we'll ever eradicate the idiots amongst us, so we have to do whatever we can to protect ourselves.

This type of thinking just puts the onus on people to react perfectly to the injudicious actions of others. In any case, the vast majority of pedestrians do already act cautiously. Just look at how many will give priority to cars entering side roads, or don't walk across zebra crossings until all the cars have stopped etc. People are trained to give priority to motor vehicles precisely because of the disparity of consequences. The problem is that putting the blame on pedestrians by saying they could have prevented the accident, is absolving drivers of their responsibility, and enabling the thinking of "pedestrians should stay out of my way".

The point of the stat about drivers ignoring speed limits is that there are often people who are very quick to point out the faults of other groups (be they pedestrians/cyclists), without seemingly being aware of quite how many drivers habitually break the law.

The best way of making it safer on the roads is to change driver attitudes, and that starts with not victim blaming.

Even on pedestrian crossings there is an expectation that you can just walk out, regardless of a vehicle that had no chance of stopping.

The law is very clear that if a pedestrian is on the crossing before the car reaches it they have priority. There is nothing in the law that says they need to allow for stopping distances. So if a pedestrian steps out when a car is 1 metre away, it is still their priority. That is why drivers should reduce their speed if they see a pedestrian who might go over the crossing. If they can't see adequately due to their view being blocked then even more reason to slow down!

This is why when I go to a crossing I put my foot just on the edge of the crossing and look before fully crossing. Anyone going through the crossing when I have my foot there is breaking the law.

I stopped to let people cross the road the other day, just to be nice as it's busy and there was nothing coming the other way. One of them just stopped in the middle of the road and starting yelling random "smile love" type comments. Would not move. In the end I crept forward a bit and reved the engine which shifted him but then he just starting swearing at me. Delightful response when I was trying to do a good thing