Local shop "rules" re groups of children

[RedskyLastNight]

There is a local shop near DC's secondary, which unsurprisingly gets rammed at home time by DC buying sweets and fizzy drinks etc. The shop has always had a policy that they will restrict the number of DC in the shop at any one time, and made DC queue up outside the shop until others left. Fair enough.

This year they have introduced a new policy that they will not let in groups of children. This is sort of ok, however both my DC have told me that the security guard (presumably under instruction) does not apply the rule consistently. If you are a group of Year 7 white children you will still be allowed in. If you are a group of mostly black children or tall Year 11s you won't be.

DS is a tall Year 11 and is disgusted at this rule. I was more horrified that they are racially stereotyping in this way. AIBU to think that the shop should apply the rule to all groups of children, or not at all?

Of course they should apply the rule across the board, it goes without saying.

A security guard should presumably be able to cope with a group of small weak Y7 children. I doubt very much he could cope with a group of large strong Y11 'men'.

They should apply across the board, but I find it very difficult to see a few y7 just out of primary and a large group of year 11s as the same

The groups behave very differently and I would say the shop seems to have more of a policy for teens than children, which I can understand. I would be guessing the shop has had an issue with loud, boisterous groups of y11s and not a few year 7s who generally look startled half the time at this stage in the year.

Oh I agree there's a big difference between y7 and y11 children, but asking a security guard to instantly assess ages and risks for groups of kids, at a busy time, when there will be some very tall younger ones anyway, is unrealistic. And there should be no discrimination on grounds of ethnicity.

A local shop near us allowed in private school children but not state ! Made the Daily Mail. They had a sign and everything

Anecdotally the state is a good one my friends son and his pals go there lovely lads. Some of the recent graduates of the private were behind the horrible Warwick uni rape threat scandal....

My local shop (the only one for miles) has a blanket "no under 18" rule. Even if parents there the rule applies.

No under 18s is outrageous surely?

How many times has he observed this happening op?

Only IME y11 teens have a very well developed sense of injustice when it comes to their own entitlements.

Our y11s get indignant about all sorts of things that they have misunderstood.

If the shop is really differentiating between y7s and y11s then I couldn't get worked up about that. They are enforcing the rules most strictly with the age group that causes the biggest problem - big y11s barging about, swearing, arguing back when challenged will be far more intimidating to staff and other customers than a group of physically smaller y7s.

If the security is racist, that's a police matter.

Ours ended up having to do a blanket ban of all children from the entire local secondary as they were such prolific stealers.

I can understand why a few year 7s are allowed in, they are smaller and quiet. But a group of year 11s are tall, loud, confident and strong, it might be intimatating for the security guard. I wouldnt assume it's about colour here just size.

YABU

Did they observe them allowing a group of white year 11s in but not a group a black year 7s? If so then you can say it is also judging by race. Going by your post it sounds like it has more to do with age. And I agree with previous pps that year 7s do a lot less damage than year 11s and the security guard probably feels sorry for them.

I couldnt get worked up over the age "discrimination". It is quite understandable that a group of 16 year olds is more intimidating and risky than a group of 11 year olds. It might be slightly annoying for your son having to wait a bit longer to go into the shop but it really doesn't affect him that much does it. If he is so disgusted by it, he could take his business elsewhere.

The possible racial discrimination is a different kettle of fish, but hard to prove

Yes basing it in age fine race no so you need to explain this

I'm just baffled at the idea that year 11s would still be buying after-school sweeties.

And in such numbers that a security guard is required

Restricting numbers of children on the premises at any one time is permitted, as is setting an age limit.

Discriminating by race is a police matter - but unless you know that year 11s are being treated differently by ethnic appearance, there does not seem to be grounds for a complaint for that reason

Is it just a coincidence that the Year 11 kids were mainly black? Because you say “mostly” which suggests some year 11 white kids were also not allowed in.

So I’m thinking it’s an age thing not a race thing.

I suspect the security guard lets in groups of kids who he (rightly or wrongly) thinks won’t be trouble. Or if they are he can sort it. Maybe those specific kids have been in before and he knows they behave?

I have seen something similar at McDonald's. There was a large group of black kids outside. Me and a white bloke walked up and were waved straight in. As were walking in, a black woman at the front of the group was shouting "I've got two kids of my own".

The security guard was black himself. Maybe it was a case of unconscious bias or maybe it was nothing to do with race and he just innocently misjudged her age.

Unless there is clear evidence of discrimination, I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I think it is crazy that a corner shop needs a security guard at 3:30 on a weekday.

It came up in a conversation between DD and DS. DD mentioned that it looked like there was a new policy at the shop. DS said it wouldn't affect her. When DD questioned why he pointed out that the shop was letting in Year 7s and Year 8s and some Year 9s and was generally ok with white children but was very definitely stopping all groups of black children. DD then said oh yes, that tallied with what she'd seen and she'd wondered why they were letting in some groups and not others.

DS then made a comment about clearly the shop has decided that groups of black children are most likely to be shoplifters and groups of tall year 11s are second mostly likely to be shoplifters (there was then a deviation in discussion where the DC discussed at length which children actually did or were probably shoplifting).

So, yes, it's anecdotal but they both independently noticed.

(for the sake of complete disclosure - my DC are actually mixed race but look white and DD is the shortest child in Year 9, so likely to be mistaken for younger)
The school has only been back 3 days, so I doubt the security guard yet recognises groups of children.

There are over 1500 children in the school and it's also close to 2 primary schools so it only needs a small fraction of the DC to go there to get very busy.

My very small town centre McDonald’s went through an obscene phase of having a burly nightclub security guard that would manhandle children. He ended up getting the sack after I complained. He would ID people and make sure they had means of paying before they went inside. I got ID’d at 25 and refused entry because I didn’t like his behaviour towards underage children. I used to work in the bloody place! No idea why they need that for a small McDonald’s as there should be plenty of staff to keep an eye out whereas in small corner shops there may only be 1 or 2 members of staff so it’s harder for them. I understand the groups of children/teenagers rule in that respect as things could easily be stolen

The shop will get much more trade from the primary school pupils (who buy more sweeties) It makes complete sense to restrict the number of those who are clearly not primary age, to avoid crowding out the smaller but more lucrative customers.

It's cute how you call them all DC

The age discrimination is quite understandable, the race thing obviously shocking and not on

In our shop we have a no more than 2 at a time policy, it's not strictly enforced but the point is it can be

Maybe they refuse entry to groups that have caused trouble in the past - to an outsider it would look random or based on age/ethnicity when really there might be a genuine reason.

"I'm just baffled at the idea that year 11s would still be buying after-school sweeties."

Eh? I teach and can confirm that Year 11s are very much still interested in, and motivated by, sweets/chocolate/fizzy drinks.

As an aside, saw a group of about 20 kids causing mayhem in a B&M Bargains last weekend. Of all places. Skateboarding and cycling in the aisles, shoplifting and shouting at the staff who were trying to herd them out. Once out, five staff stood at the door so that they couldn't get back in but an hour later they were still trying and being really vile to staff. They looked about 13-14. So yes kids can be shits and I don't blame any business owner who tries to minimise thefts, mistreatment of staff or inconvenience to other customers.

Local shops near my high school had rules. Fair enough. If shoplifting or stuff like that happens, they take more of a hit than a big store. Absolutely must be applied consistently though. Disgraceful otherwise. Maybe all the kids could boycott?