references before interview?

[rollNsausage]

So I've applied for a job in a FE college and it really interests me and I hope to get an interview and eventually the job. Its a non teaching role.

The application form asked if they could contact the references before selecting for interview to which I said 'no' to my employer and 'yes' to my other reference.

I'm really worried that they might ignore this though - why would they ask for references before interview? Surely this is not fair and could cause all sorts of problems for applicants?

The other reason I am worried is because I have a grievance out against my current employer for bullying, harassment and discrimination. This includes from my line managers and even also from HR but references go to HR so I haven't got a clue what they might say about me.

I have also been off sick with stress brought on by this situation which is another thing I am worried about being disclosed within a reference.

My argument is that it is my current workplace that is making me sick and a new workplace would make me better but obviously if my current employer found out I was looking for another job before I actually got the job offer, then that would cause problems for me too.

What if they ask for a reference before offering me the job and not afterwards?

It's a really unfair situation but I'd really like to get this job and I really want to leave asap.

I know some employers only give a basic reference but even basic references include number of days off sick and its my employer who are making me ill.

I know people who have left my workplace who have gotten more detailed glowing references so there doesn't seem to be a basic reference policy.

I just wanted to rant more than anything. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this situation?

My family say I shouldn't be applying for anything and get back to work but one of the reasons I am off sick is that my manager wanted to unfairly discipline me so I don't want that to be on my reference either. My union are 100% behind me that the disciplinary action is discriminatory but it still might not stop a bad reference

forgot to say - the application form said one of the references HAD to be current or most recent employer so not mentioning them wasn't an option.

I'm trying to jump before I'm pushed really.

Of course you should be applying for other jobs. Whatever helps you to move forward from your current situation. TBH I've never known an employer actually contact a referee before hand. I have a 2nd stage interview activity this week with both my senior and line manager and put both down as contactable before hand (havent even told them I've applied) and I can pretty much guarantee they wont be contacted yet.

It's pretty standard in education that references are contacted before interview. However if you've said not to contact them that should be respected.

I think you're worrying about things that probably won't happen. And I understand why, because you're under a lot of stress. But it's in your current employers interests for you to move to another job, so it's unlikely they would sabotage it. If you are offered the job or you're shortlisted and your sick leave turns out to be an issue, they will contact you and ask for an explanation. So even if it appears on your reference, all is not lost. Try not to worry before you've even applied

It is fine for you to be applying for other jobs.

It is fine for them to ask for details of referees before interview.

It is fine, and perfectly normal and reasonable, for you to say no to contacting your current employer. Any decent employer would respect that without it affecting shortlisting.

It is also fine for you to ask them not to contact your current employer until the point that they are going to offer you the job.

You will have to face up to the fact that they will contact your current employer if they offer you the job. It's possible that your current employer will give you a good enough reference if they'd actually like to see the back of you (if you'll forgive the turn of phrase).

@AskMeHow it's usually standard to ask for references of those in a academic or teaching role not supporting or professional services.

Op if you've stated that your current employer isn't to be contacted until after then they should honour it. If you're successful it is likely that you'll be offered a job subject to those references.

but what if they contact referees after interview but before job offer? And then I don't get the job?

I know I'm worrying a lot and yes I am really stressed. My family are not helping. Trying to put me off by saying my sickness record will mean no chance of another job and that it will come up in the interview, even in a 'round about' sneaky way of questioning.

There are strict rules in Education around Safer Recruiting, and it's part of that.

It's normal in my job for refrences to be asked for before interview, but it's also normal for them to say that they will be even if you ask that they don't It's for safer recruitment.

If they haven't said that and have asked if they can then I would asume that they wont if you have said no.

I've just joined a FE institution and have gone through the referencing.
I selected no to current employer and yes to previous.
They only contacted current employer once I was offered the job and when I said they could as I wanted to speak to employer beforehand.
Basically if you tick no, the no is respected until you say otherwise.

It's standard in education to get references first. Due to safe recruiting and safeguarding.

It also means you don't end up interviewing someone, offering them the job same day and then having to withdraw the offer and find someone else. Education is strange when it comes to jobs.

but what if they contact referees after interview but before job offer? And then I don't get the job?

They'd be well within their rights to do this. Job offers are always 'subject to reference checks'.

I thought job offers were made, conditionally, THEN the references were contacted? I guess it must vary from company to company.

Forgive me, but I have been with my current employer since graduation so I'm not experience with external interviews.

The job I'm applying for is a non academic role. A support role. No teaching involved.

I can provide them with loads of references, and they will all be positive, but they wanted current employer.

@rollNsausage

In education its standard to get references first unless you have specified otherwise. They always expect one from your last employer too. This is because of safer recruitment and applies to anyone employed by the school or LEA or MAT.

If you asked them not to contact your employer they won't until after interview. However they can withdraw your job offer due to unsatisfactory references.

I thought sick leave could no longer be asked about. Ive written quite a few references recently and not been asked.

Not sure your family are helping here with the stuff they're filling your head with. Maybe talk to Acas instead about what goes in a reference. I'm pretty sure they don't actually include sickness absence now, but Acas are a better source.

If you've not used them before, they are always one to remember for employment matters and their helpline service is free.

Have you talked to Acas about whatever this discrimination issue is?

What's your employer's policy on staff who raise a grievance or go off sick in response to disciplinary action? (Which came first for you?) That would be my bigger concern about references than number of sick days.

They can ask how many days you've had off but not for the reasons. Maternity absence is excluded here.

beta.acas.org.uk/providing-a-job-reference/what-employers-can-say-in-a-reference

I can provide them with loads of references

Personal references or employer references? I thought this has been your only job since graduating?

references from lecturers (sorry, I've done postgraduate distance learning courses whilst studying), references from customers, references from voluntary work.

I've spoken to ACAS yes and they've been very helpful.

The sickness absence came first, then the grievance, and whilst off sick I have learned that I will be facing disciplinary action when I return but have been told nothing in writing and only verbally by my union rep (who is also being very helpful and trying to help me fight this).

I believe the threat of disciplinary action is retaliation / victimisation and ACAS and my union agree.

*whilst working!

Typo!

It’s all part of safer recruitment beat practice.

I used to do HR work in education.
Standard to ask for current employer as a reference
Standard to ask if referees can be contacted prior to interview
Standard to respect a 'no' don't contact current employer or other referee before interview. Contact would then be made at job offer stage, not post interview pre-job offer. It's just extra work for the recruiting organisation to have 3 points at which references can be collected - so it's prior to interview with permission, and when a job offer is being made otherwise.
Considered appalling practice and a very serious issue to go ahead and contact a referee before an interview, even if the candidate has said 'no' to this.

Try not to worry.

I'd go for it, ask them not to contact your current employer just yet and then negotiate a basic reference with your existing employer.

Without wishing to sound harsh, all this will be taking a lot of your employers time and it will be in their interests to let you go as amicably as possible. All we give is job title and dates of employment. That's pretty standard.

Is the potential disciplinary about your capability to be in work and do the role?

No nothing to do with capability and everything to do with blaming me for someone else's mistake (which I can prove). Its blatant victimisation / retaliation on the part of HR and management.

I do hope that they will give me a positive reference just to make me go away and that they won't use my job search as another excuse to discipline / victimise me.

On another note, if I do get questioned by the college on my sickness absence, what is the best answer to give without scaring them off? Anxiety is a recognised disability but I'd much rather not go into detail about it due to the stigmas that still exist.

They are unlikely to ask at interview. I wouldn't delve into anything which could be protected by the equality act.

If there is no way round mentioning it then I'd say you've recently been unwell but have taken positive measures to get better which include seeking new employment and getting appropriate support.

It's far easier as an employer if people can be open about challenges and identify ways they can be supported so don't be afraid if it does come up.