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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it cos I'm pregnant or...AIBU?

23 replies

Greenleafer19 · 08/09/2019 22:59

Hi all,
Cant sleep as I'm so peed off still from Friday after a Convo with my manager.
Back story:
I work for the NHS and recently been told that due to a restructure of management us Pa's will be given more work and be moved up a pay band. Of course I'm delighted however on the NHS pay band there are pay points that we get an increment each year. I've really worked my balls off the last 6 years, excellent appraisals and to be honest I have the pee taken out of me on the daily because I do alot more than any other PA who are on the same pay band as me, mainly because the service lead I work for really cracks the whip and is the strictest director out the lot.
Any way I recently asked my admin manager at what pay point will I be put on to start and she said the bottom.. Which basically works out at maybe £30 extra a month. I am seething. Firstly all my other colleagues who are on that pay band have never gone on the very bottom, 1 was put 3 points up (£300 extra) and another was put at the very top (£6k extra). Pay points depend on your experience and the 1 who was put at 3 points up to start had no prior experience. I have several years experience in this field plus this is my role that is being changed, its not a job I've applied for so I don't have a choice whether I want this extra work load or not. I'm very annoyed because I know this is at manager's discretion and she has recognised my efforts, I am the go to person where other Pa's go on about 'lack of capacity' which is absolute bull and I'm very flexible in comparison. The main gripe for me is that in the past I have covered other Pa's work who are 2 whole pay bands higher (£10-12k extra)than me (not just covering absence but been given their work to do permanently because they don't want to do it) and due to absence of other pa staff I am currently covering 5 service directors and managing fine with all positive feedback. I can't help but think because I'm 6 months pregnant and due to go on maternity soon that this is why my manager is doing this. I will definitely be returning to work after my maternity, part time and they know this.

AIBU to want to discuss this with my service director (the big wig who holds the purse strings)? Or is that a bad idea? Hr at my work are useless and always side with seniors. I haven't even got this promotion extra money yet as it's taking so long to restructure but should be within the month.. I don't want to seem ungrateful but the office politics is making me so angry but on the other hand, as they say, if you don't ask you don't get!
Thanks all xx

OP posts:
ShallICompareTheeToASummersDay · 08/09/2019 23:04

What have you got to lose by asking?!

That said you should only be in the bottom point of the scale. And it might only be £30pm now, but you’ll be much better off in future. Putting your colleagues higher up makes a mockery of the A4C system and is just favouritism in your managers part

Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 08/09/2019 23:13

I agree but knowing my luck it'll be frowned upon and I'll end up in the bad books...it's so frustrating though. I think I'm going to ask the bigwig tomorrow but be diplomatic without comparing to my other colleagues. ... Confused

OP posts:
KickAssAngel · 08/09/2019 23:21

Try starting with an open question, like " The guidelines led me to believe that I would be recognised for my experience and excellence, so can you explain why I'm not further up the pay band?"

So they have to fill in the gaps about why it hasn't happened that way.

If you ask why you're at the bottom, they can give a dismissive 'that's where everyone should start' and you have to say you've heard about other people etc.

Sunshine93 · 08/09/2019 23:50

Are you a member of a union? If so I would get on to them.if not why not join one? It might be helpful as you go through maternity.

Babyiwantabump · 09/09/2019 00:12

With the new pay restructuring you can only enter a new pay band at the bottom pay point . It’s a whole NHS thing and there would be nothing your management can do about it . Sorry

Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 05:59

@Babyiwantabump if that's true then why have others been put up a few points? Urs clearly negotiable and at manager's discretion

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 06:00

It's*

OP posts:
CluelessNewMama · 09/09/2019 06:32

I work in HR, no experience of NHS but I’d say definitely have the conversation with your manager. It doesn’t have to be awkward, you are both adults and should be able to talk openly about this. They have a responsibility to ensure fairness in pay decisions so I would make the comparison to other colleagues and say you want to understand what these decisions are based on, e.g. if based on performance then what is the criteria. Seems like separate decisions about pay may have been made by everyone’s manager and they haven’t used a consistent approach, this can lead to unfairness when one manager is harsher than others. In my opinion, the HR team should be working to prevent these discrepancies, but a lot of HR departments lack teeth unfortunately. Ultimately, if they can’t objectively justify the pay differences then you may be able to claim that this is based on your pregnancy or gender (if higher paid colleagues are men), but you may want to get some legal advice before pursuing this formally.

StealthPolarBear · 09/09/2019 06:36

Why have they been put higher up?
My initial thoughts are that you're being too accommodating an dnot demanding

Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 07:02

@stealthpolarbear I Don't know.. Favouritism? There's obviously been negotiations for some and others my manager has made that decision alone at what paypoint to put them onband done the paperwork no issues.

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 07:02

On and * *

OP posts:
Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 07:04

I can't help but think because the first year of the new pay I'll be on maternity 'not earning' that pay point that's why they don't want to put me up

OP posts:
360eyes · 09/09/2019 07:12

I always thought everyone had to start on the bottom, but I think some people could jump up, but I guess that would be because they were already earning more than the lower pay point.

Maybe you could negotiate keeping your start date in your former role if this means going up the band a bit quicker? I was excited about the new AFC pay rates initially, but then realised that I would be on each pay point for a year and a half, not a year. The NHS are great at putting sequins on a turd when it comes to pay and hoping you don't notice!

You could probably get better pay elsewhere, but as your pregnant it's not in your best interest now. Just make sure you don't get loaded with work in the next couple of months as that is pretty out of order doing that to a heavily pregnant woman with little financial benefit!

londonrach · 09/09/2019 07:12

I work nhs. Im surprised your colleagues are put higher in the band. Tradionally if you go up a pay band in nhs you go to the bottom or same pay as now able to climb higher. Why your colleagues not following the rules. How you being done is the correct way. Ask your manager. You sure your colleagues are not going same as you as im surprised they share this confidential information.

ChikiTIKI · 09/09/2019 07:14

Was it very recently your friends got put on higher increments?

There used to be an overlap between pay scales, so a band 6.09 was equivalent to something like a 7.04. But since the pay restructure there is no overlap.

I recently did a sideways move and asked to go up by one increment six months early and was told they couldn't do it.

And with recruitment they used to always match your pay if it was within the pay band somewhere when you came from the private sector but now they look at how many years of experience you have in the same kind of role.

However.... I have also seen people get promotions from one band to another, back dated for many months or even a year!

I read a thread on mumsnet about someone who went from a band 6 to a band 8a and managed to get HR to agree to pay maternity pay at band 8a level even the promotion happened after the qualifying period. Have you asked about your maternity pay being at the higher band?

Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 07:24

@londonrach we have someone who was given a band 6,only been on it 2 years but she told me she is at the very top now so quite clearly she wasn't put on the bottom 2 years ago to get to the top this quick. Everyone knows each others business at work which isn't the best but I also have access to all budgets and payrolls and vcps because of my senior so I know who's getting what. Looking at the new NHS afc pay for 2019/2020 I should be up 4 points to match my current pay but everyone else has always gone up a few extra because of 'experience'.....

OP posts:
doublebarrellednurse · 09/09/2019 07:32

AFC has very much got negotiating room. Ive gone from a 6 to stepping up to a 7 recently. The promotion was overdue (but the position wasn't available) and I negotiated starting a few pay points up as they recognised I should have had the job a while ago.

I had to ask and give my reasons why

Boobiliboobiliboo · 09/09/2019 07:42

I’m senior in NHS HR. What you describe is the pay deal. It’s not negotiable. You have to get a raise on promotion, but there is no set amount. There is no point me applying for higher grades jobs because the additional hassle wouldn’t be worth it for the £60 per month extra I would get.

One of the big criticisms was that outside experience is now effectively worth more than NHS.

Senior management can’t do anything about it. It’s the system. Save your energy.

Pip001 · 09/09/2019 07:42

@Babyiwantabump is right, following the new rules they introduced you can only be promoted to the bottom of a pay band. It’s really unfair, I have had the same problem. A colleague and I were promoted, they were promoted just before the changes to the middle of the new band whilst I was promoted 3 weeks after to the bottom of the band. There is nothing you can do about it. As part of the changes they reduced the number of pay points on the band and brought in this rule on promotion but the bottom is at a higher amount compared to before the changes.

Boobiliboobiliboo · 09/09/2019 07:42

AFC has very much got negotiating room. Ive gone from a 6 to stepping up to a 7 recently. The promotion was overdue (but the position wasn't available) and I negotiated starting a few pay points up as they recognised I should have had the job a while ago.

Very different scenario to what the OP describes.

Original poster
Greenleafer19 · 09/09/2019 08:13

I agree but my colleagues were given these pay point negotiations after the new pay scale was put in place.. Its managers discretion

OP posts:
Boobiliboobiliboo · 09/09/2019 09:06

What have your union advised?

Babyiwantabump · 09/09/2019 11:10

If they changed pay band before April this year then they may have been put at a higher point as there was still an over lap of pay points . After April this year there is no longer an overlap and everyone must enter the band on the bottom pay point . NHS staff will also no longer automatically get a yearly increment .

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