To want DS to swap from IB to A levels

[Summer2003]

My 16yr DS has started on the International Baccalaureate at local college, he's 1 week in. He originally went to enrol on A levels in subjects he's strong at & enjoys, but got talked into the IB by a tutor on enrolment day. It's since turned out there are only 8 kids doing it, would of been 7 if my DS hadn't signed up.
Also found out he can't even study the areas he's interested in as they don't offer them, Eng. Lang & Geography. I've phoned the college & raised my concerns about his future here, he's weak at Maths & Spanish, 4 & 3 at GCSE, so how is he able to do IB starting from low grades, the college seemed very dismissive of my concerns & stated other kids with lower Gcse's have been fine on IB!
I know my DS, he's not an all rounder, or high organised, especially in subjects he's not into.
My biggest fear is he's setting himself up for serious stress, already seems unhappy & doesn't want to talk about swapping to A levels ASAP.
I feel the college are so desperate for bums on seats/funding they are willing to overlook the students individual needs in order to keep their jobs, what should I do, very tense house here at the moment & it's only been 1 week.

I know my DS, he's not an all rounder, or high organised, especially in subjects he's not into.

I know the IB well, and I think it's wonderful, and would love my dd to do it. However, it isn't right fit or everyone, and on the basis of what you've said, I think you're right to be concerned. It doesn't sound like the best option for your ds, and I would encourage him to switch to A-levels sooner rather than later.

I think you need to work out with him a future plan on what he wants to do with his career, what's the end goal here? We don't just study for the sake of it, we study because we want to have a good job by the end, and earn 6 digit salary if we can, it isn't about what we necessarily enjoy in life! I never enjoyed Maths, but it was my first A level to choose, because I knew it'll get me the job I want!

Don't put pressure on him to choose what you think is right, and when you talk to him, make him feel like he's making the choises and thinking out loud with you... he needs to be able to answer to what his long term plans are. I'm not sure where you're from, but in the UK, we're really not good at this, we make our children study what they "like", and they end up choosing subjects that leads them to unemployment.

The IB is a lot of work.
I don’t think we understand it in the same way as we understand A levels so that doesn’t instil confidence either. Have you read up about it? (I found it difficult to understand at first)
With Maths he may be taking a lower level..Maths SL (standard level) or maths studies.
With the Spanish he could be doing ‘ab initio’ (from the beginning) rather than standard level.
I also think the IB is great, for some students. There are other things they have to do, CAS community, activity, service and TOK, theory of knowledge (slightly philosophical) and write an extended essay.
It’s more work than A levels but generally considered to be better preparation for Uni.
Don’t forget, if there are less students, that’s more time for each student to have focused attention.

Sorry...’ab initio’ is standard level but studied as though the student as no prior knowledge

My DS was similar. He’s doing A levels - in the 3 subjects of his choice - instead of IB. A lot of thought and as much research as possible went into the decision, including looking into university entrance. If your DS can’t even study two of the subjects he likes, it doesn’t sound great, and the workload is heavy.

What does your DS want to do?

I was railroaded into taking the IB by my parents and school, who were really pushing pupils to take it.

As a result I took subjects I was weaker on (such as maths and physics) and ended up with poorer grades. Had I sat A levels I believe I could have achieved sufficiently high grades to get into my chosen university.

As it was, the IBs inclusion of some of my weaker subjects brought down my score and meant I missed my grades overall.

So please listen to your DS on this! If he wants to focus on a three or four subjects he's good at then I would recommend he takes A levels.

Please don’t put your son in for the IB unless he is a good all rounder. The amount of work is phenomenal and relentless. DD1 did the IB, and ended up taking a year out afterwards because of the level of stress she had been through. She did get her grades though, and is at her first choice uni.

YANBU, from what you've said I'd want him to change too. Perhaps at a different place if they're going to be difficult. I'd get on it right away though.

I'm a big fan of the IB, for the right student. It is not to be entered without a LOT of consideration. With just 8 students in total, I'd be very concerned about whether they're all being pushed into doing the same subjects. IB works when the student finds their own ideal combination of Higher & Standard subjects.

If he does continue, then he needs to be doing Maths Studies as one of his Standards. There are several languages available at ab initio level, but it depends on what the college offers.
Lacking a subject as popular as geography seems odd. Do they offer it at Standard and not at Higher? Not having Eng Lang at Higher is common if numbers are low. Combined Lang & Lit can be an option, or just Literature is the most common.

If IB is not the right fit, then it'll be an awfully hard slog. Switch to A levels ASAP if that'll be better.

@lockhart
He originally wanted to do A levels, even went to the enrolment day, but got sidetracked by the IB tutor who I realise now was actively looking for students & somehow convinced my son & 1 other lad to enrol on IB, otherwise she'd of had 6 students, out of 2 towns combined!
I'm actually really angry with the college over this.
My DS is saying he wants to give it 1 more week to be sure, even though other chats we've had he's sure it's not for him & A levels would be better, but I feel that's a waste of a week.
He's spent the past 3 days in bed watching YouTube & barely talking.
I'm sad, he's sad, as this should be an exciting new start, but it's become a nightmare.

@MrsSchadenfreude
I didn't put him in for the IB, he was talked into it by a desperate tutor at A Level enrolment day. We had previously considered it, but settled on A Levels after looking into it & knowing my DS is very capable, but not a "high achiever" or well rounded academically.

@Summer2003 that does sound like my experience - in my case the school gave lots of talks and sent lots of flashy leaflets out to parents etc.

I was one of the brighter pupils (not top of the year, but in the top sets), but I struggled with it. I still think if I'd sat Alevels I might have achieved straight As which would have got me into Oxbridge. Instead I got rejected by my two first choice universities (I wasn't even allowed to apply to Oxbridge as my mock results were considered too low by the school).

It is still a bone of contention with me (as you might be able to tell) and the only advice I can give would be to sit down with your DS and have a full discussion about his future plans and what grades he'd need in which subjects, whether he really wants / needs to take maths and Spanish etc, and listen to what he wants to do.

He needs to swap.
He's hardly going to do well with a 4 in maths and 3 in Spanish.

What were the college thinking of?

I would be furious at this tutor actively recruiting their IB students.

Just get him enrolled asap onto 3 A levels he is more suited to so he doesnt fall behind.

Just go with him on monday to the college and get it sorted out asap and ignore any protestations from him. Just get it over and done with. And have a stern word with them about manipulating vulnerable young students into doing a totally unneccessary and non applicable course.

The IB is a lot of continuous work. It is described as a "ongoing marathon". You need to keep up to date with all subject deadlines, no slacking off at all as once behind you'll never catch up, plus the CAS, Extended Essay and TOK. It's a great course for the all rounder but if your son is weak in some subjects, poor marks could put his overall grade down. My DD recently finished the IB and is now off to Uni. She didn't enjoy the course at all and found it very stressful, but that said, she is quite an anxious person so may have found A levels stressful too - who knows. She passed the IB and won't look back fondly on it.

It sounds like A levels might better suit your son. If he's going to swap, he'll need to do it now before the A level courses get established, or he'll have missed too much. Any further down the line and he'll have to repeat Yr 12 and start the A level courses from fresh next year. Some schools/colleges might still have A level spaces. Suggest you make contact with admissions officers at your preferred schools to see if any spaces in your subject choices.

This is the second thread I have seen recently where a 6th form is more interested in bums on seats than the best interests of the students. How depressing.

I think the college has been irresponsible, and switching to A levels sounds like a better fit for your son.

If he's gotten 4s and 3s at GCSES I can see him struggling with A-levels too tbh. And English language isn't considered a rigorous subject btw.

IB certainly won’t be easier than A levels!

Fair point 123chocolate, but those aren't the subjects he wants to do at A level.

OP what grades did he get for the subjects he wants to take?

My ds took the IB and you do need to be very well organised to keep up with all the deadlines and internal assessments. He will also have to write a 3/4000 word essay and complete an essay and presentation for the theory of knowledge course. I don't think the IB is suitable if GCSE grades are not strong. I know several schools where only their top students are able to take the IB: it is a demanding programme. I am a fan of the IB diploma and my ds did well (scored 43) but he worked incredibly hard for two years and is also a good all rounder - loves maths and science, but also speaks fluent German.

I was channeled into the IB from school as I did well on my GCSEs and was always considered very bright but I struggled with the IB, it's one of my biggest regrets. It affected which universities I went to which has had a knock on effect on everything else.
A few of the people I started on IB with switched to A levels either at the beginning or after the first year and did really well. If he's intelligent enough for the IB I think it would be much better for him to get 4 excellent A levels than risk the IB, back when I did it universities didn't really know what it was and expected you to get full marks!

What was his other GCSE subject grades that he wants to do for A Level? A lot of places wouldn’t take him with anything below a 6 in the subjects plus English and Maths.

A small group is not good, especially if the rest of the sixth form are doing A levels. Your son will have a different timetable from the A level students with far fewer frees. There is the danger of isolation and loneliness if he doesn’t get along with his fellow IB’ers, as there won’t be enough of them.

Also, why is the IB cohort so small? If the teachers are not familiar with the assessment system, this could cause real problems down the line. You need to do your own homework and be really on it from the start, to make sure marks are not thrown away. There are some good websites out there. We also had to pay for tutoring towards the end, and finding a tutor familiar with the syllabus is difficult and expensive.

I suspect IB lost my DD her university place - she ended up with a fantastic score but fell down in the one subject that really mattered.

Also, universities are not as familiar with it as you might expect.

I would not recommend it. IMHO IB only works if the school or college offers nothing but IB so that all the students are in the same boat and has a strong track record of experience.

Having such a small cohort is not ideal for the IB as a range of subjects must be offered - eg a science, an mfl, maths, a humanities subject etc and with such a small group I doubt a huge selection of subjects within each group is being offered which means students may have to compromise on which subjects they take.
Ds's school offered a good range - history, geo, economics, business, psychology, bio, chemistry, physics, art, drama, several languages, music etc