... to find the whole Greta Thunberg thing a bit uncomfortable?

[NotMyRealName11]

She's obviously a passionate and highly intelligent young woman, she's expressing her views, and she seems happy.

But I feel that it's a lot of pressure for her, especially given her history. I hope it is not too much.

I absolutely accept that different situations can have a different effect for different people... and for her, this seems to be therapeutic. But I would be worried for my daughter if she were dealing with this pressure.

I agree OP in that if she was my child who along with ASD had also suffered from anxiety, depression, selective mutism, eating disorders and self-harm I would certainly not want this for her.

She can say whatever she wants to say, I guess, and she’s certainly got a compelling deliver and an amazing grasp of one rather limited side of the debate. I’m just amazed that so many adults seem happy to let themselves be told off by her in such a hectoring 16-year-old sort of way. It’s kind of embarrassing.

I wonder what she’ll be doing in 12 years when the “climate catastrophe” hasn’t happened. Predicting another 12 years, perhaps?

But I do believe that scientist and climate activists have cried wolf so often that by the time you get to a certain age you have heard it all before.

Oh totally. It’s been going on forever. I’ve seen newspapers headlines from the early 20th century predicting catastrophic climate disasters.

In the 1970s it was global cooling that was going to finish us all off. In the 80s it was global warming and predictions of refugees moving to Antarctica. Then we had Al Gore predicting catastrophic rises in sea levels and predicting that Kilimanjaro would be snow-free in 10 years. When you live through enough of these predictions it all starts to lose its sting, particularly when the evidence is that for millions of people globally life has improved dramatically over the last few decades.

But I get that until you’ve lived through some of this stuff it’s easy to fall prey to the endless scare stories.

I wonder what she’ll be doing in 12 years when the “climate catastrophe” hasn’t happened. Predicting another 12 years, perhaps?

Breathtakingly deluded to think it isn't happening right now. Seriously, how much rainforest do you think is left? The Barrier Reef is dying in massive areas due to heating of sea waters, there are glaciers disappearing all over the world, species becoming extinct all the time. Honestly I find the ignorance and complacency of some people quite extraordinary. Yes putting any date on it is ridiculously simplistic, bit like Brexit I don't think it will be catastrophic on day one, week one or year one but rather it is a slow, inexorable decline until it really is too late to reverse.

I say this as a person who has seen and heard it all before too

Seriously, how much rainforest do you think is left? The Barrier Reef is dying in massive areas due to heating of sea waters, there are glaciers disappearing all over the world, species becoming extinct all the time

Yet we get up everyday, we take kids to school, we go to work, we come home make tea, do homework and housework, watch tv go to bed and it starts again the next day.

All these things were happening years ago and we were told this is going to happen.

We have 100 days/1000 days to save the Earth yet we are still here.

Yes, we faced climate crises in the 80s. Do people really think it went away all by itself? That banning CFCs had no effect?

There were known issues which governments and companies could relatively easily rectify. Nobody cried wolf, there were problems which were addressed.

The issue now is the problems are harder to fix and governments are not doing enough.

Denying climate change and hoping for the best won't make it go away.

Have a look at the countries in Central America who are already dealing with the effects. People are starving because their crops are failing because the climate has changed. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

But I have been around for a lot longer than the 1980s and there have been a lot of doom and gloom predictions.

According to those around in the 60s and 70s we were told we would be living underground as it would be too cold to live on the surface

We have been told the world is ending so many times yet here we are.

Only recently we were told it was too late to do anything.

In which case what would be the point.

Shouting at people and telling them the world is ending is akin to those old men who used to march up and down the high street shouting The End Is Nigh.

Either put in place a sustainable alternative to how we live now, ask people to not buy plastic crap, shop locally and put in place a way we can live without sending us back to the dark ages and maybe you will get a more desired effect.

Shouting at people and making ridiculous comments just puts peoples back up and makes the speaker look ridiculous and hypocritical.

Remember the letter signed by multiple “celebrities”.

Do as we say not as we do because we can’t help it.

Yet we get up everyday, we take kids to school, we go to work, we come home make tea, do homework and housework, watch tv go to bed and it starts again the next day.

Mmmm yes maybe where you live, perhaps try living in some of the low lying islands in the South Pacific, or above the Arctic Circle were the ice barely freezes now so the local people are struggling like never before - not to mention the Polar Bears who are literally starving to death. Look at the terrible bush fires in Australia right now and closer to home the frequent catastrophic flooding we are experiencing in some parts of the country.

Your post is such an 'I'm alright Jack' pov and I'm not shouting at anyone I just despair that so many people don't really acknowledge what is going on and has been since the industrial revolution.

If we don't act soon and act very effectively some of us on planet earth will end up living in the Dark Ages whether we like it or not.

The Barrier Reef is dying in massive areas due to heating of sea waters, there are glaciers disappearing all over the world, species becoming extinct all the time. Honestly I find the ignorance and complacency of some people quite extraordinary.

I am not saying that we do not have environmental problems to solve. Clearly we do and we should try to solve the ones that are most within our control such as localised air pollution.

But I’m guessing that neither you nor I have personally measured the glaciers, studied the Reef or counted the species, so - unless you spend your days wading through complex and contradictory research data, we’re both relying on journalists to let us know what’s going on.

How can you be so sure they’re all getting it right all the time and that every “climate catastrophe” story you read is accurate? There are now countless examples of inaccurate reporting about environmental issues and manipulation of data by “leading climate scientists”. The most recent example is the “11,000 scientists sign letter of global climate emergency” story which all the leading MSM outlets ran with - and which has now been taken offline because a) some of the 11,000 included such eminent scientists as “Mickey Mouse” and “Dumbledore of Hogworts” I.e. anyone could and did sign it and b) it wasn’t a research paper, it wasn’t scientific, it didn’t include citations - it was just a letter signed by a bunch of researchers most of whom weren’t even in climate science. But it was a good story that followed the “climate disaster” narrative so nobody bothered to check whether or not it was accurate.

Doesn’t this kind of thing, or the Climategate scandal, or the dismantling of the famous hockey stick graph prediction of global warming, or the completely unscientific suggestion that “the science is settled” (which science never is), or the fact that hundreds of other scientists are speaking up about the fact that there IS no “climate emergency” make you at least question some of what you’re being told?

At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what you and I believe as individuals because anything we do here is a drop in the ocean compared to the Chinese and US. I’ll continue doing my bit - recycling and trying not to buy too much crap and not throwing food away. But I’m always slightly bemused when people get terribly annoyed at folk like me who raise a few questions about the accuracy of the information we’re continually served up. To my mind the very definition of “deluded and ignorant” is blindly trusting everything journalists tell you when there’s a ton of evidence that what they happily report is at best lazy and inaccurate, and at worst PR for political and environmental activism. But if that’s what you want to believe, do carry on.

the Polar Bears who are literally starving to death. Look at the terrible bush fires in Australia right now

This is an absolute textbook example of what I’m talking about. You are repeating stuff written or broadcast by journalists with no more knowledge of this stuff than you or I, that repeats this same narrative over and over again. In your mind you see the famous picture of that one starving polar bear and the stock footage of glaciers falling into the sea or the fires in the Bush. These are very powerful images and are deeply imbedded in our national (and probably international) psyche.

But actually it is widely agreed that the polar bear population has grown since the 1970s when and there is plenty of evidence that depending on location it is now either stable or growing. And if you’re worried about the Bush fires you should catch up with Sky News Australia whose coverage is sensible and balanced, and who report that Australia has always had catastrophic fires every summer and always will, and that there have been worse drought seasons than this (eg the Federation droughts of the last 19th early 20th centuries). And as you mentioned the Amazon rainforest above, you’ll be interested to know that despite all the tweeting by celebrities of (as it turned out) 30-year-old pictures of the rainforest burning, NASA reported that satellite photos showed it was absolutely average for the time of year.

You are drawing the dots (Bush fires! Flooding! Amazon! Polar bears!) and coming up with a picture that is, to say the least, not entirely accurate.

Bottleof

Do you not think that the science was there in the past.

Do you not think in the past we haven’t been told on the news about all manner of different environmental disasters proving that other things were happening didn’t happen

There have always been bush fires in Australia.

In fact some of their fauna positively thrive on the fires.

Can’t remember exactly but for some tree species fire is a way for them to regenerate.

The whole point is I do not live in the South Pacific or the Arctic Circle and neither do you.

You are only seeing what is on the news and other people’s POV.

After a bit they all start contradicting each other.

You and I don’t know who is paying for these reports.

You and I don’t know how they are measuring stuff.

If someone is paying a bunch of people to prove global warming they are going to produce evidence that the world is heating up

If someone wanted to prove the Earth was cooling they would find evidence of the world cooling.

Atm there is a lot of money in climate change so everyone jumps on the bandwagon hoping for a piece of the pie.

In the past money was in proving an ice age was about to hit.

I am not saying we don’t need to look after the planet, think before we buy unnecessary stuff and be aware of the waste we produce but sometimes when people start getting hysterical over a cause I do end up stepping away and not jumping whole heartedly into following them. I prefer to look around at what I can see not what people I don’t know are telling me.

But I’m guessing that neither you nor I have personally measured the glaciers, studied the Reef or counted the species, so - unless you spend your days wading through complex and contradictory research data, we’re both relying on journalists to let us know what’s going on.

I am, and sure many others, are relying on scientists not journalists, there's a massive difference. David Attenborough I do not think is prone to scare mongering, he has seen so much changing in his lifetime. His programmes have done an incredible amount to open people's eyes to the damage we are causing.

There was a BBC programme a few months back which showed fascinating footage of the planet from outer space, the proof was pretty conclusive that vast amounts of rainforest in places like Madagascar has disappeared by something like 80% over the last 30 years or so. They have the visual data, same for all my other examples.

I'm honestly not hysterical about it all and have 'followed' climate change reporting for almost 40 years so really not just jumping on the bandwagon. I read lots of books in the 1980's and continue to do so now as the data improves. Of course I question some of what I'm told but even without any proof whatsoever it goes without saying that 7 billion greedy humans are leaving a massive impact which is very detrimental to our planet.

The glaciers have been measured for decades, there are so many photographs showing their retreat, tbh some people sound a bit Trump like in their total denial that these things are going on whether we accept it or not.

I have family in Australia who have first hand experience of the fires, of course they happened in the past and are all part of the natural evolution of the particular environment there but they are getting worse and the temperatures are getting higher with every passing decade.

I honestly hate all the celebrities jumping on board, Emma Thompson was utterly cringeworthy and I donate money to Friends of the Earth rather than Extinction Rebellion so really am not jumping on some recent bandwagon, it's something that I feel passionately about for many years.

Thank you for your replies though, I honestly do want to have some hope!

"If someone is paying a bunch of people to prove global warming"
"there is a lot of money in climate change"

The oil companies and billionaire oligarchs with investments depending on oil have spent a massive amount of money for many years trying to rubbish climate change

They finance thinktanks, they donate to far right political parties, they finance far right media
Their money has affected politics in several Western countries

It is indeed about money

I have family in Australia who have first hand experience of the fires, of course they happened in the past and are all part of the natural evolution of the particular environment there but they are getting worse and the temperatures are getting higher with every passing decade.

I’m sorry that your family had personal experience of the fires and I hope they are ok - it must be devastating to be caught up it that.

But if you’re interested in science you’ll be interested to know that Professor Andy Pitmann, one of the IPCC co-authors, gave a talk in Sydney earlier this year where he specifically said that “This may not be what you were expecting to hear, and it is contradictory to what you read in newspapers, but as far as climate scientists know, there is no link between climate change and drought.” He went on to say that when you look at the data there is NO drying trend over the last 100 years. I will try to find the link.

I am also interested in your use of the term “denial” (the religious term used to shut down debate) and your reference to the “7 billion greedy humans are detrimental to the plant” narrative. This is the kind of anti-humanist narrative that we have been fed for decades, and it simply isn’t true: we are very much a part of our environment, and our incredibly ability to tame it is what gives you and I our luxurious daily lifestyles.

You say that you’re interested in science, not journalism, but these terms are completely non-scientific and any scientist should be embarrassed to use them. And for what it’s worth many of those 7 billion people are not “greedy” at all, but just trying to survive. They are still desperately impoverished and don’t have the luxury to sit around reading books and biting their nails about climate change. They also need an industrial revolution of the kind that has afforded the West its incredible standard of living. They desperately need more access to cheap, efficient fossil fuels. There is a direct correlation between a country’s per capita CO2 output and infant mortality rates falling. I care about the natural world but I also care about people not living in desperate poverty. And to my mind, the modern environmental movement appears not to give a shit about these people - or indeed people in general.

Sky News Australia on the fires and drought. The IPCC guy comes in around 2 minutes.

@SilverySurfer The Ozone layer has been said to be basically healed because of the banning off CFCs. Which, proves, that action taken CAN stop climate catastrophe. So it is evidence in the favour of climate realists, not the deniers. I've often pointed to the banning CFCs and the shrinking hole as proof that we can make a difference and action DOES work.

@Shooturlocalmethdealer So you don't believe in science and evidence? Do you believe 2+2 =4? Do you believe the earth is round, not flat? Do you believe smoking causes lung cancer?

Do you really believe 97% of scientist experts are wrong?

@chocolatemademefat

and

@frasersmummy

The how dare you was aimed at world leaders who have the POWER to make changes. It wasn't aimed at ordinary civilians like you and me.

yup

@Jillyhilly As an Australian, I can tell you that Sky 'news' has very few viewers, and is seen as ultra far right and deeply unhinged, and worse than Fox in America. Their coverage has NEVER been balanced, in deed and in fact, Australia's Media Watch have called them out on their obvious lies, time and time and time again.

The bushfires we are having have been far worse than at any time in history. In fact, we have never had so many, at the one time, that it has made headlines like it never has before. Our bushfire season is starting earlier and earlier every year, and the season lasts longer. We are seeing far greater devastation.

And an example of a (CONSERVATIVE) Mayor (who had relatives in hospital due to the fire) calling out the head in the sand deniers has gone viral: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/11/weve-been-in-bushfire-hell-in-glen-innes-and-the-scientists-knew-it-was-coming

Excerpt - *There are already those who, following such statements, will aim to shoot the messenger. To those people I say this: take your best shot, for I have already been through hell and there is nothing you can say or do that can touch me now.

But for the sake of the future, for the sake of our community and the rising generation who will inherit this scorched Earth, one can only hope there will be enough people remaining who retain the common decency to listen, to heed the cries of those in harm’s way, who will now together take decisive and collective action to save our ecosystem and our civilisation from collapse.

Already there are armchair experts ready with free advice about meeting with disaster. Let it be made perfectly clear that all the area that burned has already been a fire ground for two months. There were hazard reduction and backburns under state authority last month and last year. The properties were all well-prepared and extensively defended. People who have lived with fire risk for decades knew exactly what to do, and they did it. The full expertise and advice of fire controllers has been heeded at every turn.

I’ll put my 20-year Rural Fire Service medal up against your free advice any day of the week.

The anger is real. The anger is justified. Because this disaster was all foreseen and predicted. For decades the link between a hotter, drier climate, land-clearing, excessive irrigation and increased fire risk have all been attested in scientific papers.

Equally for decades there have been those who insist they know better. Their ignorance and arrogance have delivered us only ashes – let these now be swept away.

Instead, we will turn towards the sober and sensible measures recommended by fire controllers, and by scientists. We will insist that governments at all levels take heed of that advice, for we have seen now up close the result when they do not.*

“This may not be what you were expecting to hear, and it is contradictory to what you read in newspapers, but as far as climate scientists know, there is no link between climate change and drought.” He went on to say that when you look at the data there is NO drying trend over the last 100 years. I will try to find the link.

As SarahNade says is this person (and you by association) defying the beliefs of 97% of scientists?

This is the kind of anti-humanist narrative that we have been fed for decades, and it simply isn’t true: we are very much a part of our environment, and our incredibly ability to tame it is what gives you and I our luxurious daily lifestyles.

Tame it? Destroy it at a totally devastating rate you mean? I completely agree that we have luxurious lifestyles but do you seriously believe we can maintain that without causing catastrophic damage eventually?

I do really care about people living in abject poverty but access to cheap fossil fuels will be the death of us all in the long run and I really don't think it's the direction we should or can continue going in. We should absolutely be helping these countries to develop but in a sustainable way not the way we did it, they need to leapfrog over all the massive mistakes we have made over the last couple of hundred years.

never mind the forest fires in California & australia

what about the flooding here in the Uk that is becoming an annual occurrence?

YABU. It’s not her fault it ended up that it ended being her speaking up and drawing attention to the seriousness of our situation. Yes she’s under pressure, but she has a lot of support now which eases the pressure. Also, as an aspie, she can take the pressure- that neuro diversity has given her the fortitude to take it on. Aspies are like cats, we don’t do what we don’t want to do.
Instead of being ‘uncomfortable’ with her, maybe just support her, as she’s doing a great job in a world run by neuro typical suits.

NewName yes absolutely, the list is endless sadly.