AIBU to not want my 3yo DD being left alone for hours with her uncles

[PeppyPiggy]

Dd’s dad has only been seeing her for the past year or so, he did not bother with her before this and claimed he was not her dad when asked to help or contribute (knowing that he was). He has been seeing DD every Saturday for a while. It turns out that every Saturday he was picking up DD and taking her to his mums and leaving her there so that he could go and play his weekend football game for hours (about three plus the travels which were sometimes long). Then he would spend a little time with her after his football and drive her back to me. I found out from DD that his two younger brothers (her uncles) were being left in charge of DD while DD was at his mums house. She was being left alone in their rooms with them and also left with them taking her to the toilet. One of these uncles is 20 and seems to have undiagnosed learning/social problems (this is what i was told by them) and the other is 13. Apparently they spend their time play fighting with DD. I don’t know if I have a paranoid view here as myself plus half of my friends growing up had bad experiences from young ages and some by family members, I also had an uncle try to get alone time with me when I was about 7 in my room and he wanted to talk to me about his fantasies, I told my mum and he never came over again. Also my closest friends mums bf had started raping her when we were at school together in what had started off as casual play fights. Obviously she agreed with me about this... but from outside perspectives, AIBU in not wanting my DD being left with two uncles?

A little bit of backstory incase people want to know, I barely know the two uncles. During the two and a half years that Dd’s dad didn’t bother with her none of his family nor his mum attempted to connect with her or me (they knew where I lived and my contact I didn't know theirs) I was never able to get to know them. The relationship I had with DDs dad was just awful and he treated me badly so it was short lived, about three months long and then i discovered I was pregnant a couple weeks after I broke up with him. When I told DD’s dad I was pregnant he assumed we were getting back together, when I said that wasn’t happening he had nothing to do with DD and denied her. He only became involved once he was forced to financially contribute by child maintenance. I have already told DDs dad that I'm not happy with her being left with uncles to take her to the toilet etc and he reassured me that he spoke to his mum about this and that it wont happen again. Today I confirmed this with his mum and she said that nothing was said to her by him and that if I didn’t want that situation for DD then DD should only be at her house when her dad is with her. DDs dad will not give up playing his weekend football games for his Saturday with her, he has made this clear to me. Sundays don’t work for either of us too. I feel like I’m being looked at now to disregard how I feel about DD being left with her uncles or face the threat of her dad not seeing her (which will really hurt her)... Would really appreciate perspective here?

[Chamomileteaplease]

Stop the contact. If her Dad can't make time for her then he's not much cop is he? Why can't he see her on a Sunday?

I can't believe that a three year old would be that upset at not seeing such a horrible father for 2 hours a week. I mean how long does he actually spend with her? A father who leaves her with a child and a 20 year old with LDs is not someone to be trusted.

Your daughter will get over it. Her father is not to be trusted. If he's bothered, he could apply for supervised contact.

[Mxyzptlk]

It doesn’t matter whether or not these uncles are aware they are grooming your dd. If her boundaries are broken down in this way your daughter is more likely to not know how to react when faced with a sexual predator.

This ^^

Also, she must hate long sessions of playfighting with 2 people who are much bigger than her.

[downbutnotout2018]

The rough and tumble in particular rings alarm bells for me. It is a key tactic predators use to overcome boundaries. If they have learning difficulty they may not even understand the inappropriateness.

[DungeonDweller]

Aside from the risks around toileting or if there was an emergency/health issue while she was in their "care"... Play fighting a 3 year old Vs 13 & 20 year old boys usually has issues around them not knowing safe boundaries, or outright bullying! I've had it with older cousins etc who don't understand that a toddler can't just be placed in the middle of tug of war or on a trampoline with energetic 10 year olds.. it's an accident waiting to happen. Teens, kids, even as an adult, the carers in charge need to be supervising safe play.

It's just not possible for your dd To be safe in this scenario.

[ShippingNews]

There is no benefit for your DD there. Her father can't be bothered to stay with her and her grandmother can't be bothered either. Your DD won't miss him if you stop the visits, since she hardly sees him anyway.

Put your daughters safety first, and stop these visits now.

[Graphista]

As well as my own experience I have family/friends who are police, social workers and teachers and THEY are all VERY cautious who they leave their kids with. I think that says it all really.

And a 3 year old I would say is particularly vulnerable.

"I think most men who aren't paedophiles would welcome and facilitate caution, rather than feel demonised. This narrative only serves to protect true potential abusers" exactly!

[Italiangreyhound]

Very wise words Cherry.

[Italiangreyhound]

GreatBigNoise While I agree it is horrible to have to think that males might be pedophiles just because they are males I think it is much more horrible to ignore a risk and leave a child exposed to a risk.

"...especially horrible to think it’s worth mentioning one has SEN (presumably because that makes the risk greater)"

I do not think there is any evidence that a person with learning difficulties is more likely to be a risk from the point of child abuse.

I may be wrong but I think if there is more risk it is just that they do not understand what may not be inappropriate.

And I do not think the OP meant that at all.

One issue is the man does not have the normal capabilities of a man of 20. So leaving a child in the care of an adult with learning difficulties may present no more real risk, or a lot of risk, depending on the adults capabilities. And as his learning difficulties are un-diagnosed, then there is no real way to know.

So, for example would most parents know what to do if a child were chocking? I would. I expect most parents would. Would non-parents? Would 20 years olds without kids? Would 20 year olds without kids and with learning difficulties?

As these people are her sole carers for hours at a time, are they feeding her, and do they know what a three year old would eat; and do they know what to do if she starts chocking?

It's not all about possible sex abuse and I think the OP would be wise to make it about the total situation, not just about possible sexual abuse.

[IWentAwayIStayedAway]

You had me at play fighting! Trust your gut. 20 and 13 year olds should not be play fighting with a 3 year old

[RedHelenB]

Where has all the information about the playfighting/toileting cone from?

[Mxyzptlk]

Hi, OP.
I hope you're getting it sorted so your DD doesn't have to go through this any more.

[AiryFairyMum]

Please stop these visits. If he wants to see her he will agree to come to your house (after football if that's the only time he is available).

[downbutnotout2018]

predators by Anna Salter. I would consider this a high risk situation

Just download this book from Amazon for 3 quid. It's very very shocking but takes the wool from your eyes.

[chickenyhead]

@downbutnotout2018

I know right?

Just wow