AIBU to not want my 3yo DD being left alone for hours with her uncles

[PeppyPiggy]

Dd’s dad has only been seeing her for the past year or so, he did not bother with her before this and claimed he was not her dad when asked to help or contribute (knowing that he was). He has been seeing DD every Saturday for a while. It turns out that every Saturday he was picking up DD and taking her to his mums and leaving her there so that he could go and play his weekend football game for hours (about three plus the travels which were sometimes long). Then he would spend a little time with her after his football and drive her back to me. I found out from DD that his two younger brothers (her uncles) were being left in charge of DD while DD was at his mums house. She was being left alone in their rooms with them and also left with them taking her to the toilet. One of these uncles is 20 and seems to have undiagnosed learning/social problems (this is what i was told by them) and the other is 13. Apparently they spend their time play fighting with DD. I don’t know if I have a paranoid view here as myself plus half of my friends growing up had bad experiences from young ages and some by family members, I also had an uncle try to get alone time with me when I was about 7 in my room and he wanted to talk to me about his fantasies, I told my mum and he never came over again. Also my closest friends mums bf had started raping her when we were at school together in what had started off as casual play fights. Obviously she agreed with me about this... but from outside perspectives, AIBU in not wanting my DD being left with two uncles?

A little bit of backstory incase people want to know, I barely know the two uncles. During the two and a half years that Dd’s dad didn’t bother with her none of his family nor his mum attempted to connect with her or me (they knew where I lived and my contact I didn't know theirs) I was never able to get to know them. The relationship I had with DDs dad was just awful and he treated me badly so it was short lived, about three months long and then i discovered I was pregnant a couple weeks after I broke up with him. When I told DD’s dad I was pregnant he assumed we were getting back together, when I said that wasn’t happening he had nothing to do with DD and denied her. He only became involved once he was forced to financially contribute by child maintenance. I have already told DDs dad that I'm not happy with her being left with uncles to take her to the toilet etc and he reassured me that he spoke to his mum about this and that it wont happen again. Today I confirmed this with his mum and she said that nothing was said to her by him and that if I didn’t want that situation for DD then DD should only be at her house when her dad is with her. DDs dad will not give up playing his weekend football games for his Saturday with her, he has made this clear to me. Sundays don’t work for either of us too. I feel like I’m being looked at now to disregard how I feel about DD being left with her uncles or face the threat of her dad not seeing her (which will really hurt her)... Would really appreciate perspective here?

[FeeFee832]

OMG absolutely do not leave the baby with them. This is not ok!

13 and 20 with learning difficulties? OP this has danger written all over it. I wouldn't leave my 10 year old with them let alone my 3 year old.

Please stop sending her. Reading this has really worried me

[gluteustothemaximus]

Stop contact.

What's the point? It's supposed to be his contact day and he isn't there. Stop contact and let him fight in the courts if he's that bothered. Which he won't be.

No way is that on. None of this 'it's his contact day, you've not got a choice' fucking bullshit.

[chickenyhead]

OP I read quite an interesting book on risk in such scenarios last week. It was called predators by Anna Salter. I would consider this a high risk situation

[PenelopeFlintstone]

My DH is a pretty blokey bloke but was hands-on with our kids. He’s not ‘woke’, he’s a manual worker, not very ‘right on’. I just read him the OP and he didn’t think those boys looking after the little girl was a good idea at all. So it’s clearly obvious to everyone.

[pallisers]

I would stop this contact immediately. I say this as someone who left her 10 week old breastfed baby with his 18 and 15 year old uncles to go for coffee with MI but then I'd known those kids since they were little. So it isn't an anti-young man thing. This sounds chaotic and risky for a 3 year old.

I agree with the pp who said there is something wrong with this family.

[Barbarara]

I wouldn’t allow this.

I would stop contact.

If pushed for a reason I would lead with the issue of a 13 yr old and 20 yr old of diminished capabilities not being suitably mature to look after a child.

I wouldn’t give your discomfort regarding the potential for CSA as a reason because you’ll be met with either outrage or naïveté. I’m guessing that as you haven’t already taken decisive action, you may not have the strength, certainty and support to hold your ground. Don’t start a battle that you can’t win. The less you say the harder it will be to wear you down and undermine you.

Let him take the initiative for contact. I’d be pushing hard for safe, supervised contact.

[Rachelover40]

I certainly would have concerns about this, the boys don't sound suitable child minders (nothing to do with paedophilia), but does you ex's mum, her grandma, not look after your daughter while she is there?

[Graphista]

"Why do people say most times it doesn't happen? More woman than not that I know have experienced CSA." Yep! I'm one of them and very few of my family/friends have NOT experienced inappropriate behaviour from males from quite a young age.

Stats mean nothing as few of us report and even when we do we're rarely believed even when there is visible evidence!

I think how much it happens is HUGELY underestimated.

Aside from all that his ONE day per week is meant to be HIS time with his child - not all and sundry's!

I had a similar issue with my ex where he was basically leaving dd around the same age mostly with his parents who while happy to see her are much older than my parents and even then we're not physically up to the demands of a 3-4 year old for a full day plus the point was it was HIS contact time for HIM to build a relationship with her. Thankfully I had a sensible judge on the matter who agreed to stipulate in the contact order that ex had to be present for at least 6 months if dd was taken to visit extended family.

I wasn't (as ex tried to claim) trying to stop dd seeing her grandparents/aunt/uncles but to make sure she DID see her FATHER.

I even went as far as posting a copy of the contact order to his parents so they knew he had been told not to keep fobbing dd off on relatives because he Cba to be with her! I included a note explaining I was very supportive of them staying in dds life (which they continue to be) but that I wanted ex to nurture a relationship with dd and that couldn't happen if he didn't spend time with her.

They supported the contact order and made ex stick to it. It made a huge beneficial difference to dd at that time.

Sadly since then ex has withdrawn from having a relationship with dd.

Personally if I were you no way would I be allowing the current situation to continue. It's inappropriate, at best it means your ex isn't making anything like enough effort to have a relationship with your dd at worst he's putting her at risk of harm - at minimum from neglectful/inexperienced actions of his brothers at worst malicious actions.

This "he can do what he likes on his time" especially when his time is minimal is bollocks! At the VERY minimum he should be making the most of his time with his child and making sure she is cared for well.

[Durgasarrow]

This situation is creepy.

[EmeraldShamrock]

Yanbu listen to you but, he sounds like a selfish dick I would not give a shit if I had to go to jail I'd fight against contact for years.

[EmeraldShamrock]

That was suppose to be *listen to your gut.
It's bedtime.

[CodenameVillanelle]

Why do you think your dd will be 'really hurt' if these visits stop?
She's 3. She's only known her dad for a year and she barely spends any time with him. She'll adjust very quickly.
Who takes your daughter to the loo when she's with these young men? Who wipes her bum? Who supervises when she eats? Who steps in to make sure play fighting doesn't get too rough? Who makes sure they aren't watching inappropriate things on tv?
This situation is completely failing to meet her needs.
What about an afternoon in the week if he's not at work?

[CloudyVanilla]

I have a three year old DD too OP and others can think what they like but sadly I would have to put protecting my DD from even potential dangers above being seen as offensive for thinking any of these people might be predatory.

I’d want nothing to do with any of them to be honest. Why did contact start after 2.5 years? Was it you reaching out or did he pursue it?

I never say this but I would stop contact and have him pursue it in the courts in this case. It seems like no one in that family gives a shit about that poor little girl, least of all her own father :(

[joystir59]

He does not give one flying fuck for the wellbeing of your child. End contact and let him.pursue it through the courts. He could be pimping your daughter to her uncles for all you know! I would let any male have unsupervised contact with my child just based on the statistics. And yes, I know, NAMALT, but too many are.

[joystir59]

I would NOT let

[OkPedro]

As an adult who was sexually abused as a child by an “uncle” I would have given anything for even one adult to be paranoid/suspicious/ whatever. I wouldn’t have lived with this shit all my adult life.
I will never understand the POV of people who make excuses or try to find a “reason”
No not all men are pedophiles but 99% of pedophiles and sex offenses are men

[MaxNormal]

This situation is chilling. It's got disaster written all over it.

[NoSauce]

The arrangement is so he can have contact with his DD. He isn’t having contact if he’s playing football every Saturday.

I would, for numerous reasons halt this OP. Let him take you to court, where you can explain exactly what’s happening here. He needs to come up with another day where he can spend it properly with DD.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

The post by @Antonin brought me to tears. This was my situation with my brother. He pinned me down, hit me, prevented me from leaving the room, suffocated me etc. And there was sexual stuff as well as he got older to humiliate me into a non human rather than molest me. The post made me realise exactly why I didn’t know how to react when dhs best friend was sexually play fighting with me when I was 21 with dh in the next room and as a teen when older boys who I barely knew were trying to pull my clothes off or locking me in a room to force me into sex.

It doesn’t matter whether or not these uncles are aware they are grooming your dd. If her boundaries are broken down in this way your daughter is more likely to not know how to react when faced with a sexual predator.

Cuddle your lovely daughter and enjoy every minute that you are keeping her away from your ex and his neglectful family. 😍

[DungeonDweller]

Please update op, and tell us your DD is safe. It's quite upsetting to read posts like this and know your little girl needs someone to intervene quickly but not hear back.

[EmeraldShamrock]

I think how much it happens is HUGELY underestimated
This massively. In our large teen friendship group 8 out of the 10 girls had suffered sexual abuse at some point, some worse than others.
I was about 7 from a teenage cousin I was the 3rd cousin he touched inappropriately.
I was excited and told my big sister, life changer for the entire extended family that day.

[Italiangreyhound]

Even if these relatives were fenale no way would I consider them appropriate carers for a nine year old let alone a three year old.

[Italiangreyhound]

@PeppyPiggy please come back and reassure us your little one is safe and you are on the case. It's been pretty much unanimous that this isn't a good situation for your dd.

[Cherry4weans]

I think most men who aren't paedophiles would welcome and facilitate caution, rather than feel demonised. This narrative only serves to protect true potential abusers. It is way more important to teach our children to be in charge of their own boundaries and recognise gut feelings, than to not offend someone. By having blanket rules it protects both parties, after all - You can have a significant and quality relationship with an uncle/sibling/friend without them taking you to the bathroom or spending long periods alone in their room.

[GreatBigNoise]

I think it’s horrible to worry that two males might be pedophiles just because they are males and especially horrible to think it’s worth mentioning one has SEN (presumably because that makes the risk greater)

However, I wouldn’t be happy with it either. It’s sad though.