AIBU to not want my 3yo DD being left alone for hours with her uncles

[PeppyPiggy]

Dd’s dad has only been seeing her for the past year or so, he did not bother with her before this and claimed he was not her dad when asked to help or contribute (knowing that he was). He has been seeing DD every Saturday for a while. It turns out that every Saturday he was picking up DD and taking her to his mums and leaving her there so that he could go and play his weekend football game for hours (about three plus the travels which were sometimes long). Then he would spend a little time with her after his football and drive her back to me. I found out from DD that his two younger brothers (her uncles) were being left in charge of DD while DD was at his mums house. She was being left alone in their rooms with them and also left with them taking her to the toilet. One of these uncles is 20 and seems to have undiagnosed learning/social problems (this is what i was told by them) and the other is 13. Apparently they spend their time play fighting with DD. I don’t know if I have a paranoid view here as myself plus half of my friends growing up had bad experiences from young ages and some by family members, I also had an uncle try to get alone time with me when I was about 7 in my room and he wanted to talk to me about his fantasies, I told my mum and he never came over again. Also my closest friends mums bf had started raping her when we were at school together in what had started off as casual play fights. Obviously she agreed with me about this... but from outside perspectives, AIBU in not wanting my DD being left with two uncles?

A little bit of backstory incase people want to know, I barely know the two uncles. During the two and a half years that Dd’s dad didn’t bother with her none of his family nor his mum attempted to connect with her or me (they knew where I lived and my contact I didn't know theirs) I was never able to get to know them. The relationship I had with DDs dad was just awful and he treated me badly so it was short lived, about three months long and then i discovered I was pregnant a couple weeks after I broke up with him. When I told DD’s dad I was pregnant he assumed we were getting back together, when I said that wasn’t happening he had nothing to do with DD and denied her. He only became involved once he was forced to financially contribute by child maintenance. I have already told DDs dad that I'm not happy with her being left with uncles to take her to the toilet etc and he reassured me that he spoke to his mum about this and that it wont happen again. Today I confirmed this with his mum and she said that nothing was said to her by him and that if I didn’t want that situation for DD then DD should only be at her house when her dad is with her. DDs dad will not give up playing his weekend football games for his Saturday with her, he has made this clear to me. Sundays don’t work for either of us too. I feel like I’m being looked at now to disregard how I feel about DD being left with her uncles or face the threat of her dad not seeing her (which will really hurt her)... Would really appreciate perspective here?

[Verily1]

I’d stop contact and let him take it to court (I doubt he would he sounds like he doesn’t care).

If something does happen and you had these thoughts and didn’t act how would you feel??

[Italiangreyhound]

Trust your gut. This is not in your dd's best interests at all.

A young teenage boy and a man of 20 should not be left in charge of a three year old girl unsupervised when they hardly know her. There is no way I would allow this. IF your ex wants contact with his child then it should be for her benefit and being dumped on relatives who play fight with her is not in her interests at all.

"DDs dad will not give up playing his weekend football games for his Saturday with her, he has made this clear to me." Sounds like he has very little interest in his child.

"...the threat of her dad not seeing her (which will really hurt her)..."

Do you know this would hurt her? She may feel disappointed in the short term but knowing in the long run that her father could not really be bothered to make time for her, and left her to be supervised by his brothers, she may feel he is not really worth knowing.

[Sunshine93]

On balance I would probably raise the issue and and suggest a solution such as him having her on Saturday after football or on Sunday afternoons or something. I wouldn't be happy with her being in the care of minors or young adults with learning difficulties. I doubt there's anything sinister he just sounds selfish but obviously there's a risk here and you should trust your gut.

If he doesn't take you up on suggestions then do as others have suggested and put your foot down and he can take you to court.

How unutterably sad, the demonising of men as paedophiles I agree with this. Of course most men aren't paedophiles. There are other dangers though. It's far more likely that there's a risk of neglect than physical abuse. Sadly poor care from these young people could lead to an accident for your DD because she wasn't being watched adequately or her accessing inappropriate things on one of their phones or witnessing something inappropriate or any number of things which have nothing to do with paedophilia bit are still a cause for concern.

[Italiangreyhound]

No one is demonizing all men as pedophiles.

People are expressing concern that these males are not appropriate carers for a three year old. If they were female and also spending the day play fighting with your dd they would also be not appropriate carers for your 3 year old. What is one of these lads fell onto her during play fighting? It's not appropriate.

[INeedNewShoes]

Even if it is honestly just play fighting I don't think this is acceptable. I have some very well intentioned friends who tickle my DD and play flight with her and within 20 seconds she's had enough. I can see that she's stressed by it even if she appears to be laughing.

I don't think people criticising posters for labelling all males as paedophiles are being fair. The OP's scenario sounds like an unhealthy and inappropriate setting for the care of a 3 year old. I would not consider this to be ok for my DD despite the fact that she is often looked after by my male friends including being bathed and nappies changed/help with potty. Difference is that I know these men really really well, I know their families and their wider social networks. I've spent tons of time with them and (although I could be wrong) I'm in a reasonable position to make a judgement call on how much I trust them.

I hate the idea that the OP has no control over who her DD is left with - people she doesn't know at all.

[Italiangreyhound]

Re "...the relationship I had with DDs dad was just awful and he treated me badly so it was short lived..."

Why do you feel this man will be any benefit in the life of your child.

He has proved repeatedly it would appear that he is not someone worth having around. Even the fact that he lied about talking to his mum about a safeguarding issue you raised.

Completely agree with BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

"I'd stop contact and let him persue it through the court. Make a call to NSPCC for advice and then if needed this can be used to aim for supervised contact."

Agree with bmbonanza "Keeping your child safe is the only real thing you should be worrying about." And if her father cared about her, it would be all he cared about too.

[Sue2019]

I don't like the sound of this situation. Offer him contact with DD in a different setting / supervised contact centre perhaps.

[DungeonDweller]

Op, put a stop to this now! The point of his contact time is for him to spend time parenting her and forming a daughter-,dad bond. He cannot do this is he's barely even there.

I would stop this right now, aside from the lack of care in terms of who's looking after her, (who fucking expects their 20 and 13 year old brothers to look after a random family 3 year old every week, it's not on for anyone here), I would want to protect your daughter from the message "football is more important than you", that's shocking. He's a shit dad and you need to explain that, with evidence & details, if he wants visitation agreed via a court.

I feel sorry for your poor dd here.

[Anon21]

I agree with everyone else's comments on here, I'd trust your gut instinct. If you're not comfortable with it, put a stop to it. Contact nspcc or citizen advice for advice about supervised visits. How old is your DD, is her dad on the birth certificate? Good luck.

[caringcarer]

I would tell ex he can come to your home to see your dd after his football game and as another poster has suggested take her to park or McDonalds. He will still see her for the same amount of time. If he complains then report it to ss and tell them you are not confident to leave your dd with strangers and would prefer supervised contact.

[bobstersmum]

Just read your op again and her so called dad does not care about her this much is obvious, you are the only person in her life that can protect her. My dd is not much younger than yours and let me tell you not a hope in hell would I put her in this situation. Protect your child.

[chickenyhead]

Err I would not recommend an ex who was both abusive and so reluctant to accept the end of the relationship, comes to your home for contact under any circumstances ever.

[SirVixofVixHall]

Those complaining of the demonising of males...almost all sexual crime is committed by males. I don’t know a single woman my age who hasn’t experienced some form of sexually based assault, from groping, grabbing etc, on to rape. It really isn’t one, lone, freak of a man doing all this assaulting all by himself.
Sexual assault by males is staggeringly common, if men don’t want to be “demonised” then they should start policing each other and their behaviour towards women and children.

OP this is an accident waiting to happen. I would be as worried about her getting hurt as I would sexual assault, it is an insane situation, you don’t even know this young man and teenage boy who are “play fighting” with her. Don’t let her go there again, these people are total strangers to you. 13 is very young to be looking after a toddler for a start, and if the young adult uncle has learning difficulties he may not understand either how to keep a small child safe.
Her father sounds totally feckless.

[mathanxiety]

Amen to that, chickenyhead.

[BrendasUmbrella]

There is no way most people would leap to the conclusion that uncles are going to do anything inappropriate, and I think that is an offensive way to look at things.

An offensive way to look at things?! It's how a parent looks at things. Child abuse sadly is not an anomaly. And a 13 year old boy and a young adult with learning difficulties left in charge of a small child is highly irresponsible at best, dangerous at worst.

[TruthOnTrial]

If her father is not there for contact eith his dd, then she doesnt go

Her contact is not for his dm, or her uncles, its for her to be with her father only.

No, its not appropriate to leave young dc with young males unknown and unchecked.

It wouldnt be allowed in any childcare setting, and family is no different.

You cannot assume these males know how to act appropriately, and feom what you've said, I really think they don't.

I would already be concerned for her and she would not go back .

Take control of your dds safety and ensure contact is contact with her father only.

I'm not sure what his interest is suddenly any way?

[CoffeeNeeded2019]

@PeppyPiggy please stop contact with your daughters father - he’s putting your daughter at risk, intentionally or not

Change contact so he sees her, doing something appropriate, even if it for less time

You’ve had some good advice here, take responsibility for safeguarding your daughter, you would never forgive yourself if you don’t

I hope you sort out a solution for you all

[RedRose55]

Why are these uncles doing babysitting for hours every weekend?? Don’t they have a life? Very strange

[MoonageDaydreamz]

No, absolutely not. Apart from anything else I wouldn't want my young child left with anyone (male or female) who they didn't have a close trusting relationship with.

A 20 year old with potential issues that may affect his judgement is left in charge of two children, as the 13 year old is still a child. If he spends his time play fighting with a 14 year old he's obviously not very mature.

Apart from (valid) paedophile concerns, would he know what to do if your child was choking? If he had to go to A&E due to an accident? Does he have a drivers licence and access to a car seat?

There are obviously some 20 year old who would be mature enough to be in charge in this situation but this young man obviously isn't one of them.

It's ridiculous that during the only contact your child has with their dad, he is prioritising football.

I don't think he's going to kick up much of a fuss if you stop this contact. He and his family sounds like a waste of space and I doubt your child is missing much by more or less cutting contaxt completely and certainly not allowing any contact unless you're there as well.

[GilbertMarkham]

How unutterably sad, the demonising of men as paedophiles

The vast majority of paedophiles are men (and in the case of women I have yet to see one who didn't have a man involved somewhere behind the scenes/pulling the strings).

CSA is incredibly common.

Sad but wise and realistic.

[IdblowJonSnow]

Op did you say you don't know these people?
And that one of them is only 13?
No way would I let either of my older kids be in this situation, never mind a 3 year old.
It's not demonizing ffs, it's ensuring your child is being looked after by a capable adult. Why does her dad bother taking her if he's just going to football?
Put a stop to it and see if he's bothered enough to try to change the current arrangement.

[GilbertMarkham]

*please stop contact with your daughters father - he’s putting your daughter at risk, intentionally or not

Seconded.

He's probably only doing it to reduce cm anyway.

Tell whoever you need to what he's doing during contact instead of spending time with her and who he's leaving to "supervise" her.

[GilbertMarkham]

And yeah, even if they are decent and wouldn't do anything inappropriate; they are not suitable for looking after your 3 yr old daughter.

He's at fault but I also can't believe his mum allows this and doesn't step in .. something badly wrong with this family.

[GilbertMarkham]

Might i also add that while I've used the word "paedophile", the vast majority of CSA is not done by classic paedophiles (people who are exclusively attracted to children) but by opportunistic men who are exploitative and predatory and who engage in sex and relationships with adult women as well.

[ArloRoo01]

I would go with your instincts here, stop the visits now