AIBU to not want my 3yo DD being left alone for hours with her uncles

[PeppyPiggy]

Dd’s dad has only been seeing her for the past year or so, he did not bother with her before this and claimed he was not her dad when asked to help or contribute (knowing that he was). He has been seeing DD every Saturday for a while. It turns out that every Saturday he was picking up DD and taking her to his mums and leaving her there so that he could go and play his weekend football game for hours (about three plus the travels which were sometimes long). Then he would spend a little time with her after his football and drive her back to me. I found out from DD that his two younger brothers (her uncles) were being left in charge of DD while DD was at his mums house. She was being left alone in their rooms with them and also left with them taking her to the toilet. One of these uncles is 20 and seems to have undiagnosed learning/social problems (this is what i was told by them) and the other is 13. Apparently they spend their time play fighting with DD. I don’t know if I have a paranoid view here as myself plus half of my friends growing up had bad experiences from young ages and some by family members, I also had an uncle try to get alone time with me when I was about 7 in my room and he wanted to talk to me about his fantasies, I told my mum and he never came over again. Also my closest friends mums bf had started raping her when we were at school together in what had started off as casual play fights. Obviously she agreed with me about this... but from outside perspectives, AIBU in not wanting my DD being left with two uncles?

A little bit of backstory incase people want to know, I barely know the two uncles. During the two and a half years that Dd’s dad didn’t bother with her none of his family nor his mum attempted to connect with her or me (they knew where I lived and my contact I didn't know theirs) I was never able to get to know them. The relationship I had with DDs dad was just awful and he treated me badly so it was short lived, about three months long and then i discovered I was pregnant a couple weeks after I broke up with him. When I told DD’s dad I was pregnant he assumed we were getting back together, when I said that wasn’t happening he had nothing to do with DD and denied her. He only became involved once he was forced to financially contribute by child maintenance. I have already told DDs dad that I'm not happy with her being left with uncles to take her to the toilet etc and he reassured me that he spoke to his mum about this and that it wont happen again. Today I confirmed this with his mum and she said that nothing was said to her by him and that if I didn’t want that situation for DD then DD should only be at her house when her dad is with her. DDs dad will not give up playing his weekend football games for his Saturday with her, he has made this clear to me. Sundays don’t work for either of us too. I feel like I’m being looked at now to disregard how I feel about DD being left with her uncles or face the threat of her dad not seeing her (which will really hurt her)... Would really appreciate perspective here?

[category12]

If he's choosing football every Saturday then I'd change the contact day. I don't know what's behind you not wanting to change the day, but stopping contact may end you up in court.

[BizzzzyBee]

Leaving a small child with a 13yo and a 20yo with learning difficulties is not acceptable. Neither of them is capable of taking adult responsibility for a child. Their gender is irrelevant. I’d stop contact and make him explain to a judge why he needs access considering he’s not actually spending time with her.

[Twillow]

This makes me feel very uncomfortable too. Do whatever you can to minimise her being left without her dad - I would drop her there after football and stay nearby to pick her up at a set time if it was me. Be her advocate.

[DrinkFeckArseGirls]

He sounds like a waste of space so unlikely he will take you to court for visitations. I would stop the visits in the current form - maybe he can take her for a couple of hours to town for tea or whatever.

[Aridane]

underage men ( as in 'boys' or 'children')

[Treesinaforest]

I would stop contact too, he doesn't value her enough to make her a priority over football ffs.

Let him go to court where you can outline your fears. If he bothers.

As for your daughter, she is young enough to be distracted from wondering where Daddy is. She will be fine.

Good luck whatever you decide

[GabsAlot]

Hes prob only having visitation to spite you because he has to pay maintenance funny how he couldnt be bothered before then

Tell him its stopping and he can take uu youto court if he wants to see her

[GabsAlot]

Your dd wont be that upset she hardly sees him as it is

[Whatevskev]

Op she isn’t having contact with her dad

So why are you sending her there?
You don’t even think it’s safe and it certainly doesn’t sound much fun for her

Stop it right now
He can take you to court if he wants to see her badly enough

[Starlight456]

Stop contact it’s highly doubtful he is going to bother taking you to court. He can’t be bothered with the access he had.

[chickenyhead]

Could you exchange the weekend for a couple of week day evenings?

[HumphreyCobblers]

If it was a 13 year old girl and a 20 year old woman with learning difficulties it would still be wholly inappropriate to leave a child with them, there is no one with adult responsibility to look after her.

And all the posters who are outraged at the 'demonising of men as paedophiles' - have you never heard of safeguarding? It is a truth that those who abuse children are overwhelmingly male.

[flumposie]

Go with your gut. I would not be allowing this.

[CorBlimeyGovenor]

I wouldn't let her go. He can pick her up after football if he so wishes. A little girl should not be left alone with a 13 year old boy and a 20year old male with difficulties. Regardless of whether anything dodgy might happen or not, he is palming her off on them. They are highly unlikely to be responsible or have the necessary experience to look after a young child. If the grandmother is around, she should be the one in charge and helping her to the toilet. It just seems as though they can't really be bothered, which is not the best environment. The NSPCC does an excellent PANTS campaign. They have a good song on YouTube with a cartoonPantasaurus. It's suitable for small kids and teaches them that what's in their pants belongs only to them. It's worth looking at with a view to sharing with your daughter.

[Pikapikachooo]

I think your experiences are very understandably clouding your worries
And it’s so understandable , and there might be a risk . But I have never had the issues you had (just as perspective)
I think a better solution is to sit down and try and negotiate a time where he sees her properly
If he isn’t open to discussing that I think you have a right to revisit this situation

Does Your DD like going there ?

[PicsInRed]

Stop contact.

Let HIM explain all that to a Judge.

I bet he doesn't even bother and job done.

[bluebeck]

Agree with PP

Stop contact.

[emzeexb]

My husband was molested by his aunties when he was 5. They was ranging from 14-28.

And we just found out sil daughter has been molested by her paternal uncles. She's 2 and they are 12 & 19.

You can't trust anyone, family or not, it's very shifty, and the grandma should be looking after her at the very least IF THE dad isn't there, which he should be, it's his day ffs.

Stop this!!!! Please

[Antonin]

I worked in child protection. This is a no no. The physical play is grooming your DD to accept physical handling by these young men under the guise of rough play/play fighting. Their intentions may be ok but one hin can lead to another and your DD is having to accept this behaviour whether she likes it or not, thus eroding her physical boundaries and personal space. There is little possibility that they are sensitive to her needs or distress.
Do put a stop to these visits because you will never forgive yourself if your DD is abused or injured and knowing the situation you would have to accept some responsibility.
If you explained the situation to the family court or Children’s Guardian they would regard this a child protection issue given the background of the case.
Good luck OP

[Monestasi]

The physical play is grooming your DD to accept physical handling by these young men under the guise of rough play/play fighting

I thought no yanbu when i read your post. ^ made my blood run cold.

Protect your little girl OP.

[DC3dilemma]

There are some incredibly naive people here. This isn’t about demonising men, this is about dealing in facts. This isn’t the time for “not all men” virtue signalling. Girls and women still need more protection than men, all evidence proves this. And having heard literally hundreds of stories of abuse, this sounds like a very worrying, poorly safeguarded situation to have your child in.

@PeppyPiggy
The NSPCC say that at least 1 in 20 children experience childhood sexual abuse, and...
Female children are the most likely to be abused...
They are most likely to be abused by men and teenage boys who are family/known to them.

Sorry, there is not a chance i’d knowingly send my daughter into this situation week after week. It just doesn’t sound like anyone (gran or dad) really cares enough to keep her safe.

[DC3dilemma]

learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-sexual-abuse/

[mathanxiety]

The physical play is grooming your DD to accept physical handling by these young men under the guise of rough play/play fighting. Their intentions may be ok but one [thing] can lead to another and your DD is having to accept this behaviour whether she likes it or not, thus eroding her physical boundaries and personal space. There is little possibility that they are sensitive to her needs or distress.
THIS ^^
And she is also having to put up with their presence when she uses the loo.

Grandmother is not stepping up to spend time or help with toileting, and allows hours of very dodgy sounding 'physical play'. She is not protecting your DD or providing an appropriate environment for her.

Stop contact.

It's supposed to be in the child's best interest, and this is not.

The fact that he is paying some maintenance doesn't give him the right of visitation.

If he wants to establish a schedule then he will have to go to court and fight you for it, and prove that it's in the best interests of the child. You have good examples and arguments as to why it isn't.

[tolerable]

oh no...you cant do right-for doing wrong..... how does a sunday shift fit into your world?or his?clearly hes token gesturing at "dad"roll and that's failed. Demand a timescale he can assure his undivided attention-and if he hasn't the confidence offer(if you want)to ease it in gently.hes either dad or not(cnut)