AIBU subtle anti Mother’s at work attitude.

[nonamesleftatall]

So this is my first post so be a little gentle.

I work for a big corporate company where the majority of senior staff are male and unless you are prepared to work full time long hours each day 8.30-6/7 and Saturdays then you will never progress to management level.

I am quite vocal and very sexual equality focused. I have always felt our company isn’t great with supporting woman with maternity/ part time/ flexible working etc. When I applied for flexible working hours last year (for a mere 2 hours on a Friday that I was happy to pick up at home) my senior manager didn’t even know that a flexible working hours policy existed. He also didn’t know the difference between equal pay and the gender pay gap.

Sorry for long winded. But I have one day off per week. So work 4.5 days Mon/Tue/Wed 8.30-6. Friday 8.30-4 and alternate Saturdays. Quite long hours I think with an 8 year old and a 4 year old. I felt like a female colleague was a bit huffy when I left at 4pm the other day. Did an eye roll and said you’re never here. This morning I pulled her up and said does it bother you that I have a day off and finish earlier one day. She was horrible and we are friends but she said it just bugs her when people use children as an excuse! She said we work x hours and if that’s not suitable then people should get a job with suitable hours. She works in another department within office and she said if her junior asked for part time she’d decline and finds it incredibly annoying that other staff member asks to take lunch at end of day to pick up her son and had occasionally been late due to child being ill or issues etc. She said it’s unfair to people who don’t have children and it’s not unforeseen. People with kids should choose appropriate jobs. I said my results had been much better than others who worked full time and my salary was pro rata so pay was equivalent. I argued that people could be excellent and work part time and that children would grow up and people would likely work full time again. I said ideally is 50% of work force is female and a large proportion of woman have children it would be awfully expense to take on someone new every time someone had a baby so as not to allow part time.

I said we should support woman etc. She didn’t get it. Said it is just annoying and a cop out. For reference she’s younger than me, no kids and more junior than me.

AIBU to think what the hell? This company is producing narrow minded robots?

What a bunch of dinosaurs. The truth is though that companies like that will fail to thrive because they are only drawing their employees from a narrow segment of society and are not accessing the best talent due to their prejudices. That will be their downfall sooner or later. Tbh your best bet would be to take your talent to a different company where there are fewer misogynists. They do exist.

The attitude of the woman you had the altercation with is typical of a certain kind of woman who thinks she can beat the patriarchy by distancing herself from other women sufficiently to ensure the misogynists don't categorise her with the rest of us. It never works. You can't beat the patriarchy using the tools of the patriarchy.

Erm, which part of her blatant twattishness on the subject there was 'subtle'?

Shocked and disgusted. Just shows how brainwashed people are, even women who have mothers/Might be mothers/know mothers. She doesn't have a clue. Can only hope for her sake she doesn't have encounters like that if she ever had children and looks back upon that moment with you

Gosh what an interesting first post. Almost hard to believe that your colleague said so much in one discussion and so much happened in one organisation

I used to get that when I was one of the first part timers in my work. After a few times of offering to let the twats see my payslip with “part time hours mean part time pay, they eventually stopped

The whole workforce is changing, its not just women wanting flexible working for childcare, and many want to work from home to avoid commuting, so dinosaurs like you have are a dying breed.

Some jobs can't be done remotely or part time, but there are many, many jobs that can quite easily. Both employers and employees need to be realistic about what is necessary for each job though, 'flexible working' doesn't mean you can do whatever you like.

When any man can legally self identify as a woman, employers won't have to employ any of these pesky biological women. No need for maternity leave or time off for appointments. Only full timers need apply.

I'm assuming they get paid more than you? Tell her to stuff herself! Long term it doesn't sound like a place that you'll feel comfortable staying at. I feel for you, O

Doesn't sound like the kind of place where I'd like to work to be honest. Surely it cant be so amazing there in other ways that you couldn't consider getting a different job?

It still baffles me that companies equate childcare issues with women only. Men have children too...

DH and I work for the same company and although some of the culture is still outdated, no one bats an eyelid if a man (or woman for that matter) works their day around childcare arrangements

I would encourage you to find such a company OP, I used to work for dinosaurs like your colleagues and frankly the change has been amazing!

So pleased to have some lovely responses. I honestly feel I’m surrounded by so many people with this point of view that I was starting to question whether it is normal. Every time I ask for anything from my boss the first words that leave his mouth are ‘are you ready to start working on X day now’. I am so passionate about enabling woman (or anyone who wants/ needs to work part time) to progress and fulfil their full potential, but it there seems to be so much opposition.

I would leave a company like that and leave a scathing glass door review. Why work there? And to the female colleague I would just say you sound very naive and ignorant - I bet she will change her tune when she is in that boat.

Not all companies are like this. Mine is very pro family it's brilliant, for mum's and dads

She'll change her tune as soon as she's up the duff.

When I was younger, particularly in my student days at a very right on university, I sneered a bit at feminism and women's studies. I had never felt discriminated against at school and felt the world was my oyster. With a bit more life experience now I'm middle aged with children, I see sexism everywhere.

I also was tempted when young to play the 'cool girl' laughing to sexist jokes etc because I really wanted a boyfriend, job etc to fit in. Nowadays I give no shit what people think of me and will challenge stuff like this.

Are you in the US? I ask as it seems that employment laws and policies are quite antiquated or is it just the industry?

I’m in the UK. The general mentality in my office with regards sexism, homophobia, racial jokes is all just too much. There is one guy who makes peadophile jokes and I find it really offensive. Everyone says I don’t understand ‘banter’ and I’m up tight but it’s just not on my wave length. I am aware I sound like a dick but I work in what is an essentially an unskilled profession. I think there is a correlation between a lack of education and this mentality. I would love to leave but I am limited in options due to lack of qualifications with a need to work as I have a family to support. I am pretty bright so would be capable of doing a skilled job. Didn’t finish degree due to unforeseen circumstances but finished 2 years to 2:1 standard. I am a top performer in current job, but we live in a word where a degree seems to be an essential requirement or you work your way up from the bottom.

OP which part of the UK are you in? There are employers who look at behaviours over qualifications ( I do!) but depending where you live you may have more or less choice.

And by the way, not laughing at offensive jokes doesn't make you uptight, it means you're a decent human being

If you haven't done so already, maybe speak to some recruitment agencies about the type of profile that is sought after in your area. Yes a degree is good, but so is experience and a good work ethic and you have both!!