Schools to open evenings and weekends.

[WaterSheep]

Anne Longfield has suggested that schools should open in the evenings and on weekends, in order to help prevent children being preyed on in the streets by gang members.

Apparently this would allow children to access their sports, drama and technology facilities. Wonderful... but what happens if anything goes missing or gets damaged, who is going to replace them?

Oh and just one small point, i'm sure it's an accidental oversight, she hasn't actually stated who will be supervising the children....

(Excuse grammatical error - Parts...ARE)

There are no teenagers using school resources in the evening in any of the Scottish schools I e worked in. There are organised sports clubs, and after school stuff run by staff but no equivalent of a youth club. We do have youth clubs in some areas, but that is not what being a community school means. There's a lot of valuable adult education that goes on in school buildings.
The idea of using art resources and ICT - they would need to bring their own stuff in.

Many schools up here are owned by private companies and let to the council, so could theoretically be let to anyone who could pay the fee.

Mistressiggi That sounds like a good use of the spaces, and very similar to what a lot of schools do now.

Wouldn’t it be lovely if the government came up with a plan to solve a very real problem, with a well thought out, budgeted and resourced plan? Even though this seems a sound idea in theory, to make use of resources that might be standing empty for big chunks of time, no one really believes it will be funded or resourced or staffed properly. Everyone who works in a school (I did for many years) is sighing and waiting for the extra work with no monetary compensation. Bit like how they ‘solved’ early years childcare by underpaying nurseries.

Also, hasn’t the academisation programme given ownership of schools to the schools? The LA doesn’t own the premises any more?

Our community use schools tend to be high schools and that sort of thing is much less common there anyway.

That's interesting - that community schools are secondary schools.

It seems to me that, in many areas of England, the greatest need is in fact in the type of community where the only school is a primary and where there is, typically, less to do for teens.

They trialled a tech free youth club in our area not long ago and it shut because hardly anyone came. The youth club had various classes but the teens stayed home and played on their consoles or whatever. They weren't interested in coming and mingling with other teens. I thought it was sad, but the way people interact has changed and I don't see us going back to the way things were.

During the time it was open they also got their windows smashed and the craft stuff was stolen. So now there is no intention to try again. They also didn't have a kitchen and this proved very unpopular with the few teens that did attend.

I think offering facilities is a great idea, but unfortunately it doesn't always work in practice. I also think it would have to be done in a way to protect school resources. Honestly though, council funding has been stripped to the bone and I can't see local council's funding this when they are struggling to pay for everything else

My friends school had a disco every Saturday evening open to children 13+. My school had a youth club separate building on the grounds. Yes these things may be possible. But as others have said the areas need to be specific and locked away. I really don’t see logistically this will happen and wonder how much the schools will be vandalised if the gates are left open.

Offering the building to people who want to run groups is fine, but many schools already do that and are used all week.

The problem is that classrooms and learning spaces are not appropriate to hire out most of the time. I'm still bothered by the fact groups who have used my classroom have clearly been using my resources. Another department has had to ration materials for their staff and keep everything in bulk under lock and key because magically staff had no materials but the resources kept going down.

It seems a default position at the moment to tag whatever social issue is a problem onto schools in some way, forgetting that all these wider services were cut over the last decade by a government who claimed they weren't important

elodie

Super yo have you on board.

'to'

I'm sick of people thinking that schools should be able to solve all the ills of society.

THIS WITH BLOODY BELLS ON!!!

I swear we should just collect them as babies from the maternity ward and drop them back at age 18!!! Oh and do it all for free too!!

LizzieSiddal

Well as the saying goes, you can’t argue with stupid!

No you can't

You can't argue with people that are adamant that schools are only open when their children are there.
You can't argue with people that think other people should just be available for their childcare.
And you can't argue with people that think school buildings don't need cleaning or maintenance.

Many schools are already let to outside groups outside of school hours.

It is not hard to understand.

It seems a default position at the moment to tag whatever social issue is a problem onto schools in some way

I've definitely noticed this more and more over the last few years.

And you can't argue with people that think school buildings don't need cleaning

Actually, that's a really good point.

IME, many school cleaners are those who have other roles within the school, because the pay for those roles is very low and the top-up is useful - so lunchtime supervisors, 1:1 TAs etc.

For them, the fact that cleaning time is continuous with school hours - so straight after the school day - is vital in their retention for the job. To say that school is now open to the public until much later - say 6 or 8 pm - and thus cleaning must be done in the late evening, would threaten retention of these staff, whose dual role ensures they do a fantastic job.

Schools are not empty when the children go home. As a teacher I am there planning, assessing and setting up my classroom, so I am there from 7:45am to 6pm most days. If someone was in my classroom how would I find time to set up displays, prepare resources etc.

@Spacecudet how does that work? Do you have keys to the school?? I’m in Ireland where we don’t have access to the school that late at all so I find it odd that you could be there that late! We are all gone by 3.39/3.45 at the latest unless there is a meeting! Our school is opened in the morning at 8 but teachers don’t show up until about 8.20 at the earliest.

Can’t see the issue with having say a computer suite open...
Except - looking after the equipment. Costs of printing, network access being set up for the users of a variety of ages, licensing of software issues when it’s not just for education, ability to maintain the kit when it’s never not in use. IT support in the hours it’s used after school, web filtering specific to needs for the new people using it, and so on. Not to mention impact on lessons next day if the equipment isn’t looked after properly.

Classrooms - have personal stuff in them - adults and children, GDPR issues with class lists etc on walls for daily use, displays, when does cleaning happen? Equipment not looked after - happens everywhere if classrooms are let in holidays.

Public spaces - gym, hall etc. Are often being set up for the next days use in the evenings, weeks of exams close off most spaces as desks set up.

It’s not nearly as simple as the building/equipment is there -use it. Staffing cost is part of it but the management of the change in the use is huge.

There is sod all after school care for high school age children. But the need for the only or both parents to work longer days than school hours. Target that. I notice she didn’t mention actually feeding the kids either.

Something similar was tried at weekends where I worked several years ago. Anything that wasn't locked up was used/abused - even teachers' own property. Sometimes they even asked the caretaker to unlock stuff. (He did! - I think he felt pressured.) Kids were poorly supervised resulting in vandalism and theft.

The spaces used were left dirty as the school cleaners only cleaned them in the evenings.

I ended up having to keep most of my resources in my car and lug them in every Monday as well as having to sweep my floor and empty bins (and pick up litter) every Monday morning too.

I was so relieved when the parties involved found a school which was more convenient for them. It would have been much worse had it been every evening.

*@Spacecudet how does that work? Do you have keys to the school?? I’m in Ireland where we don’t have access to the school that late at all so I find it odd that you could be there that late! *

@Youmadorwhat hahahahaha Welcome to school in England (primary especially). School opens at 7, locked up at 6, I have a key and the code for the alarm, as do the majority of staff, and would expect either to work at home on a Sunday (I can dial in to the network) or go into school on Sunday to prepare for the week.

I cannot, for example, mark the 96 books by class generate per day within an 8.20-3.45 day. I cannot do the planning and resourcing expected. I certainly can't do e.g. SEN paperwork. Even if I had a TA who did displays, I couldn't prepare display material. I also couldn't meet parents, which I do probably 2-3 evenings a week after school....

Yes, why not. Many schools run breakfast clubs anyway, so let's take ALL responsibility from the parents!

I notice she didn’t mention actually feeding the kids either.

That's a good point, if food is to be provided then who pays for it, where is it stored and where are they making it. Our after school club provides food, the staff are food hygiene trained and although they only make simple food like pasta and sandwiches they still need the use of the kitchen.

kaitlinktm I'm sorry to hear it didn't work, the constant use of resources and mess must have made each morning so much more stressful. The staff in our school are always in until gone 5pm setting up for the next day, and I know they would be heartbroken if they had to redo this as well as the million other jobs the next morning.

I cannot, for example, mark the 96 books by class generate per day within an 8.20-3.45 day. good god we just do it in class!

I also couldn't meet parents, which I do probably 2-3 evenings a week after school.... what are you meeting parents so often for?? I might speak to a parent at pick up or drop off every so often or if they want to set up a meeting (which has happened twice) then I can set it up for straight after school.

SEN Paperwork is done by the SEN teacher/team mostly.

Sunday!! No!! I might check our system messages on Sunday evening but that’s as far as it goes! The only time I take things home is when I am doing reports or if I have given my class something that involves A bigger piece of writing. Not very often.

Planning is done fortnightly and I might do a little bit of tweaking after school or half hour or so in the evening if things have changed a bit in the curriculum.

how does that work? Do you have keys to the school?? I’m in Ireland where we don’t have access to the school that late at all so I find it odd that you could be there that late!
Our school is open to staff from around 6:30/7am until 5:30/6pm at night. There's no expectation we are on site all hours and it's there for us to plan our own working hours because that's when the site staff are working.

What annoys me in this is the claim (and later posts) that it's so odd that people in a different system might have a different approach and different ways of doing things.

Anne Longfield used to run 4children which collapsed with massive debts and impacted negatively on many communities. Not one to be costing anything I would suggest.