AIBU to give you an update re Church noise?

[alittlequinnie]

I am not sure if you remember my original thread but I asked people to let me know what would be considered reasonable in relation to noise levels of living next door to a Church.

The thread gathered pace and I left it just before we had a meeting with the Council, the Methodist Church members and the Seventh Day Adventist Members.

Just to let you all know that the meeting went ahead on Friday. The Methodist Minister didn't actually manage to get any representatives from the Seventh Day Adventists to the meeting - he said that he had been waiting for a letter from the Council before asking them. However, he sees them every single Saturday and the meeting has been booked for about 6 weeks so I am not sure why he found it so difficult to verbally tell them.

So there was just my DH and I, the Methodist Minister we deal with, the Council lady and one other Minister (higher up) from the Methodist Church.

Basically we all put our findings - which was mostly my DH and I because we are ones moaning.

There was no defence to the noise - just putting facts really. The Methodist Minister we speak with is a bit of a drip and didn't really have any solutions.

The Council however said that they were just here to fact gather and to see if a solution could be found through mediation.

She did mention that when there is a noise nuisance they usually monitor the property making the noise at the border. This means that any noise leakage at the border can be considered a nuisance.

Obviously the noise is leaking over their border, over our border and into our house so we feel cautiously optimistic that they are breaching "something".

The plan is as follows:

• We continue to monitor for another 6 weeks now the meeting has taken place to see if any improvement.

*We give a copy of our findings to the Methodist Minister every Sunday so that he can speak with the Seventh Day Adventists about the issues to see what he can do.

*Somebody from the SDA's to come over to our house and give us name and contact number so we can speak with them directly if there is a particular issue

• Review after 6 weeks.

First Saturday of the 6 weeks was the one just gone. Absolutely no improvement whatsoever - we could hear the lyrics of the hymns they were singing in our bedroom still.

Also we gave the copy of the noise diary to the Minister but nobody from SDA's came over to our house to give us contact details.

Will keep plugging at it but not sure how effective it is to have had the meeting when the SDA's were not there - so frustrating for the Methodist Minister not to manage to do this simple thing!

I'm going to now start to tackle the terrible parking to see if that helps the situation at all. I feel if there are less cars piled on the double yellows, pedestrian crossing, accross my garage and on the zig zag lines there may be less people milling around all together?

Who knows!

Everyone who can't be arsed to read the previous thread.

The OP lives next door to a Methodist church. She has never had an issue with the Methodists' use of the church.

The Methodists have now sublet to a 7DA church. THE OP WAS THERE BEFORE THE 7DAs,

The 7DAs services are heavily amplified and intrusively noisy and congregants park dangerously and without consideration.

She is struggling to get the Methodist landlord to take responsibility for their tenants.

It's all there in the other thread.

Believe what you like princess - bells at St Marks start at 4am and ring every fifteen minutes. Bells at Streen mark the hour 24/7 and have a service peel 4 times a day

Oh fgs, a church clock is not the same as bells ringing "all day every day" And it's certainly not the same as the OP's situation.

Why not update the original thread?

'I grew up in the Country and love the smell of muck spreading. But both of these things are entirely irrelevant to the OP’s post.'

This has tickled me!

Why not update the original thread?

Because people just read the first post and can't be arsed to read the rest.

The council have a duty to investigate this. A statutory duty. Id say they were failing in this duty. I said it on your last thread, but I'd be going to the ombudsman. The council can do a number of things that they're just not doing. They can monitor the noise with recording equipment installed in your home. They can come out and personally witness the nuisance. Once they've done that they have a duty to take action.

Therefore, I would contact the council and tell them that you feel as though they are not carrying out their duties as per the Environmental Protection Act. Ask them to investigate. Not just offer mediation. Mediation can be used, but usually after a nuisance has been established.

Nuisance ls legally defined.

I'd also start proceedings for your own action under the EPA. Which is actually fairly easy and interestingly has a lower burden of proof.

I'd also stop meeting with the church at this point. And take everything formally.

There is much you can do. I hope this resolves.

Ah OP I followed your previous thread and am sorry to hear that there has not been much progress. The fact that they didn't show up at the meeting just proves that they know they are in the wrong and completely out of order. Hopefully the council will be able to sort this out for you. Good luck OP. Sounds like you are going to need it.

The Methodist minister sounds really pathetic. He clearly didn’t even tell the SDAs about the meeting. But what about his boss, the higher-up Methodist who attended the meeting-did he/she have anything useful to add?

Sounds like the bottom line is that the Methodists are not willing to do anything that will threaten the income they get from the rental. How sad that cash is displacing the basic Christian principle of Love Thy Neighbour.

Why are the Council not interested in at least tackling the parking? Councils are usually all over parking infringements.

You must be so frustrated. Is it worth joining the Methodist congregation to see if the Minister suddenly steps up for you when you become one of his “flock”?

Op, I'd be really concerned that they suggested sending a SDA to your home based on the way you have been verbally abused by these people before. Your home is your safe space, they should just be giving you a phone number for someone higher up the SDA than anyone using the building adjacent to you so you can phone them up and tell them to rein in their church every time it gets loud. What they've done is given the SDAs scope to come and be aggressive to you in your home. The methodist minister is a dead loss isn't he?

Thanks for the update OP, I was wondering.

YANBU at all - good luck.

And parking all over doubleyellow lines , is it allowed on a Sunday?

You mean Saturday, it's the seventh day Adventists who are the problem, not the Methodists.

Double yellow lines mean no waiting at any time, unless there are signs that specifically indicate seasonal restrictions. The times at which the restrictions apply for other road markings are shown on nearby plates or on entry signs to controlled parking zones. If no days are shown on the signs, the restrictions are in force every day including Sundays and Bank Holidays.

I’m so sorry OP. You are being incredibly patient - I’m utterly enraged on your behalf (also by the handful of idiotic posters here bleating on about church bells, which is clearly nothing like the situation you’re in).

I really hoped for a better update OP, I am sorry. Keep pushing this.

@Aannnaa you have no idea what you’re talking about. No idea. You have no idea of the level of noise, disruption and abuse OP has put up with for three years. And YES, actually, the SDA church DID spring up overnight while OP was already living there happily!

And there's no excuse whatever for parking on the 'pedestrian crossing, accross my garage and on the zig zag lines '

At the end of the day, it is neither here nor there whether the SDA's attended the meeting. The methodist minister is the one who holds the power to do something about this - either to install the noise monitoring equipment which acts as a circuit breaker if it is tripped, or to give them notice as they are presumably in breach of the terms of their lease. He's the one who is profiting from them being there, and he isn't dealing with the fallout from it.

Perhaps you could suggest a house swap with him for a while? You go and live in the manse whilst he lives at yours?

Oh, OP, sorry to hear you haven't had much progress on this.

Regarding the parking, perhaps get in touch with the highways department at the council and let them know they have an opportunity to rake in a fortune in parking fines at each service - let them know it would be totally worth paying the overtime for an enforcement officer to patrol. :)

I agree with those that say you need to push for noise monitoring equipment to be installed in your house and garden by the council.

One other possibility, given that PPs have suggested that the internal volume of the church exceeds permitted levels, it may be worth contacting the Health and Safety Executive to get their opinion on this and find out if there is anything they can do to assist you.

I read the original thread (or some of it). I think your complaint is perfectly reasonable. You have lived next to the Methodist church without issue for many years. The problem is that it is being rented out on a Saturday to a different religious community who drive to the venue in large numbers, causing chaos on the street, blocking your drive and singing so loudly all day that you cannot hear yourselves think. That sounds like a noise nuisance tort and it is something the council should take seriously. You might ask the council to consider sending the traffic warden over on a Saturday, to see if that persuades people to lift-share. Do send another update in 6 weeks. If all else fails, you can take them to court for a tortious claim. or you could take the Methodists to court for vicarious responsibility after they have failed to manage the noise nuisance, but I would wait to see what the council do first. There is no point in incurring legal fees if you don't have to.

Aannnaa

Read the thread.

OP lives next to a methodist church and has been fine with that. Now the SDA are using the building it is more like a rock concert, except it is every week and more than once a week.

I'd be following @DonPablo's advice OP.
Your patient efforts with the Methodists and SPA and Council aren't getting you anywhere.
I suspect the Council are being particularly feeble because it's church organisations and they don't want to 'offend'. Completely misplaced and they don't mind throwing you under the bus.
Make it formal, go legal and get your MP involved for starters.

For the person who claims she lives with church bells 24/7 - you must have the fittest bell ringers in the country! You mean you have a chiming clock, pre service ringing ( usually Sundays and special services) and weekly ringing practice. Maybe the Angelus once a day (single bell ) though not many do that.
I lived next to a cathedral for years and that was the pattern. I'd be surprised if ordinary churches were busier.
If you've actually read the OP's full thread you will know it's got everything to do with selfish,rude,entitled people breaking the rules and nothing to do with ordinary church noises.

Aaannnaa I'm not enough of a cunt to complain about that

. Ironic, wouldnt you say, considering the way you are treating others? You're the only one speaking like this on this thread yet the others are cunts?

I dont think you will be successful if you think their religious activities are going to stop.

Hi OP

You might want to see if you can edit your post to ask people to only comment if they did so on the original thread

Commenters arent aware that pretty much everyone on the first thread was agreeing the noise was unreasonable and outside what you would normally expect for a church

Sorry didn't finish but Church services are now changing and probably have changed considerably since you moved in. If the services are now more like rock concerts then that is unfair on you....I say this as a regular church goer!

OP

When I was having problems with sound the council had me down load the app, 'the noise app' you record the noise with your phone,asy how long it has been continuing and where in the home you are recording.

The council can then log in and hear the noise and the level.

If your council don't use it maybe suggest they do.

You can't be the only one OP! What are the other neighbours saying?