AIBU to give you an update re Church noise?

[alittlequinnie]

I am not sure if you remember my original thread but I asked people to let me know what would be considered reasonable in relation to noise levels of living next door to a Church.

The thread gathered pace and I left it just before we had a meeting with the Council, the Methodist Church members and the Seventh Day Adventist Members.

Just to let you all know that the meeting went ahead on Friday. The Methodist Minister didn't actually manage to get any representatives from the Seventh Day Adventists to the meeting - he said that he had been waiting for a letter from the Council before asking them. However, he sees them every single Saturday and the meeting has been booked for about 6 weeks so I am not sure why he found it so difficult to verbally tell them.

So there was just my DH and I, the Methodist Minister we deal with, the Council lady and one other Minister (higher up) from the Methodist Church.

Basically we all put our findings - which was mostly my DH and I because we are ones moaning.

There was no defence to the noise - just putting facts really. The Methodist Minister we speak with is a bit of a drip and didn't really have any solutions.

The Council however said that they were just here to fact gather and to see if a solution could be found through mediation.

She did mention that when there is a noise nuisance they usually monitor the property making the noise at the border. This means that any noise leakage at the border can be considered a nuisance.

Obviously the noise is leaking over their border, over our border and into our house so we feel cautiously optimistic that they are breaching "something".

The plan is as follows:

• We continue to monitor for another 6 weeks now the meeting has taken place to see if any improvement.

*We give a copy of our findings to the Methodist Minister every Sunday so that he can speak with the Seventh Day Adventists about the issues to see what he can do.

*Somebody from the SDA's to come over to our house and give us name and contact number so we can speak with them directly if there is a particular issue

• Review after 6 weeks.

First Saturday of the 6 weeks was the one just gone. Absolutely no improvement whatsoever - we could hear the lyrics of the hymns they were singing in our bedroom still.

Also we gave the copy of the noise diary to the Minister but nobody from SDA's came over to our house to give us contact details.

Will keep plugging at it but not sure how effective it is to have had the meeting when the SDA's were not there - so frustrating for the Methodist Minister not to manage to do this simple thing!

I'm going to now start to tackle the terrible parking to see if that helps the situation at all. I feel if there are less cars piled on the double yellows, pedestrian crossing, accross my garage and on the zig zag lines there may be less people milling around all together?

Who knows!

@manicmij

Strangely enough, when MNetters have bothered to read threads they have often been a fount of knowledge and useful advice. And yes, have sometimes actually solved problems.

That's one of the positives of forums.

Doesn't work with people who just jump in with 'couldn't be bothered' posts though.

I’m really glad you’ve updated OP although it sounds like they’re being incredibly obstructive.

This threads has also shown which posters desperately need to name change after making utter dingbats of themselves.

Have (the Council) given any undertakings this time that they will not just close the complaint (‘because nobody added to it for 4 weeks so computer said it all must be ok now’ or some other sappy excuse?

You've got to be joking; from long experience I can say without doubt that if they don't want to do something it will go like this:

We've lost the file
The person dealing with it's on holiday / inameetin
There's nobody assigned to this; we're waiting to recruit, but with the awful cuts ...
We're waiting on consultations
We can't discuss such-and-such because of GDPR
And so on and so on

Which is why, if OP really wants anything done, some of us have suggested the only remedy may be a legal one

Pig Destroyer, Anal Cunt and Cattle Decapitation are useful bands to download and play.

Finding out whether the church is going over 120dB would be useful, too, as most bars are restricted to 100 in areas with residential properties (and frequently lose their licences for going over).

Having worked as an audio engineer, I hated evangelical or charismaticchurch work - there was always some glazed eye 'important person' who whined that the sound wasn't loud enough when I had to wear filters to prevent it causing permanent hearing damage.

I particularly remember one where they were shouting at me that it wasn't loud enough, but I couldn't hear them two foot away and, more importantly, they couldn't hear me.

I did point out that the Christian Church was responsible for the invention of sound engineering and acoustic design in architecture in the first place, as they literally created the science with the sole intention of carrying the prayers of the faithful up to Heaven as if God wasn't perfectly capable of hearing them without being shouted at in the first place.

I don't do church work anymore. It's a fucking health and safety risk that I wasn't prepared to risk again.

Londonmummy66 has some very good advice. I will just add that a Methodist Circuit should have a property steward, as well as the individual church having one, and it might be worth contacting him/her if you can get contact details - or just the Circuit Stewards team as a whole, as they are part of the Circuit's leadership team along with ministers. This could be especially useful if the local Methodist minister is also the Circuit Superintendent; I'm not clear whether the higher-up minister who came to your meeting was the Super or someone from District or what.

I'd have thought the rental agreement would have clauses in relating to noise and disruption of neighbours. As the actual minister is a bit feckless, it sounds like it needs to be escalated to whoever his boss is.

Perhaps MNHQ could add a TL:DR to the OP to prevent daft posts;
"I have lived next door to a church for 11+ years, and have had no problem with the associated noise/traffic. 4 years ago a 7th Day Adventist group started using the church weekly, using a loud PA/sound system, and using it for extended hours, inc very late at night. Parking is also a problem during their usage. AIBU to complain about this."

I'd have thought the rental agreement would have clauses in relating to noise and disruption of neighbours.

I would be amazed if there is any written agreement between the 7DA and the Methodist minister.

I'd be even more surprised to find that the minister has updated the buildings/liabilityinsurer of the new arrangements.

Just couldn't be bothered as I did recall you had omitted to mention in your original post whether or not you had moved knowing the church was active.

So why bother to post at all, @manicmj?

I'd be even more surprised to find that the minister has updated the buildings/liabilityinsurer of the new arrangements.

Ooh, good thinking Weezol another angle of attack OP?

Thanks to those endorsing my advice - its actually Dear Mama's so I can't take the credit. I would be less well behaved. I was thinking a series of flyers to go on the windscreens ramping up the ante - eg week 1 "Jesus is very disappointed with your anti social parking"; week 2 "Jesus condemns your parking as very selfish" etc etc leading up to "God has said you are all going to hell for making the lives of those who live here hell on earth" - but then I've never been a responsible person.....

I really feel for you OP. However, I am not sure what must be worse. The noise from these SDA's or these idiotic people commenting non stop with 'what do you expect if you move next to a church.' Its been a painful read

I think you are doing the right thing by complying with the council for now but you must take it further if after those 6 weeks nothing is done. Do you have any holidays planned that will mean a bit of peace and quiet over one or two of the Saturdays?

Just another thought on the angles of attack. It could be argued from a planning point of view that there has been a change of use for the church. The magic number for being able to take enforcement action is 5 years. If the SDAs have been there for 4 years, it could be worth contacting your local planners with a complaint arguing substantial change of use.

I can't quite remember the amount of time they are using the premises for on a Saturday - was it around 10 hours?

I'd be even more surprised to find that the minister has updated the buildings/liabilityinsurer of the new arrangements.

Excellent point!

There are very possibly far more people at those services than is safe - Environmental Health would be the ones to contact, I would think - and their insurers would have something to say about it.

Stop faffing about with the minister and go straight to the top hierarchy of the Methodist church. Just google their details and keep plugging away. You have been getting nowhere with the SDA and the minister for years now.

Also, just as an aside, as an ex planning expert pointed out in the last thread, it doesn't make any difference who was there first, the laws around reasonable noise apply to all and being there first is not an exemption.

I agree with PP who mentioned church stewards. Ministers come and go but every church has a core/committee of practical people who get things done and can be quite forceful. If you get them on your side you will be onto a winner.

My immediate and continuing thought it to buy an air horn. Every time the singing starts I would stand at the door of the church and set the horn off until the cannister was empty.

And while they are outside your garden making the noise.

Every.Single.Time.

I mean I might be arrested but it would be worth it.

@alittlequinnie how are you getting on?

Any update @alittlequinnie ?

@alittlequinnie I was thinking of you and wondered if there'd been any improvement in your situation?

You have moved to a house next to a church and are complaining about church noise?
Maybe get your house on the market.

The church I used to worship at before we relocated had electric guitars, drums etc. It was fantastic! Feel good music.
If it was death metal I would sympathise.

I think you could do with a little churching up! (Blues brothers reference)

Even if you can't be bothered to read the original thread, this thread tells you not to comment about moving next to the church and then complaining without reading the original thread!!

Thewomeninthemirror - it would help if you RTFT before posting a pointless, unhelpful comment!

Tbf, OP must have known she was going to get the “but you moved next to a church” comments - I’d be surprised if she didn’t get them on the first thread too.

It would have been a good idea for OP to add a short summary much as @VforVienetta has written on this page.

YABU fgs, you moved next to a church, of course you should expect some noise. If you want deathly quiet go live next to a graveyard!

@Sunflowers211, where in the original thread or the current one has the OP ever said she didn't expect some noise, or that she wanted deathly quiet?

Clue: nowhere.

@Skittlenommer, do RTFT before jumping in with posts that make you look exceptionally hard of thinking.