Brothers - vent thread

[carrotsandchocolate]

Yes, manners matter.

Sometimes I hear it argued that ‘you shouldn’t need manners with your nearest and dearest.’ My argument is that you need them more than ever with the people you claim to love.

Giving people space. Giving them time to adjust to new ideas and not springing things on them. Asking if you should take your shoes off when you enter their house. Making them tea. Being polite about/to their SO even if you hate their SO. Making time to call them, meet them, not cancelling last minute unless a crisis emerges and you can’t avoid cancelling. Not forgetting to call them. Petting their cat/dog (bonus points if you are not an animal lover yet do it for them.) Saying thank you, please, and sorry. All these things are important. Super important. And I don’t know where we as a family gone wrong with our two youngest boys (my brothers) but they do not seem to appreciate at all that these things are important.

I’d die for either of them in a heartbeat. Yet saying thank you or sorry, or even recognising the need for it, is alien to them.

What has gone wrong? They’re 20 and 22 respectively, so not teenagers with no excuse. Yet they seem to be in some kind of competition as to who can be the biggest arse to the people that love them best.

Not an AIBU really, just wanted to reach out for a big internet hug. I have two wonderful parents and four other siblings that don’t actively or passively try to hurt me or each other, so I try to take solace in that, but still.

I found it a bit hard to understand your thread.

None of what your brothers do seems that bad, why should they pet your cat or dog ? The shoes off is very contentious not every one does it. It’s all a bit petty. As for your partner why do they hate him

If as a family you have classified your brothers as the black sheep, it’s not surprising they do nt behave perfectly.

It's hard if you don't feel you have the relationship you want with your brothers. I think perhaps some of your frustrations are clouding your judgment in other areas though. Expecting them to pay attention to animals they aren't interested in is a bit strange IMHO and not a reason to judge them. And sometimes it is unavoidable to spring things on people. Perhaps you all need more give and take. If you start to change the way you relate to them you may find that they change how they relate to you and the relationship becomes more how you'd like it to be.

I think I understand what you mean. And I agree with you about how important it is to treat people sensitively and kindly- most importantly your closest and dearest family and friends. I suppose you could take solace in the fact that statistically, most of your family are lovely. That’s not so bad!

Two of my bros are like this and in their 40s. I have one amazing bro and can’t understand why the other two are so crap

Imo a 20-22 year old isn't going to want to phone other siblings on a regular basis. Their busy with their own lives. I think you judge them a lot from what you've wrote and that's isn't fair. Sounds like you other siblings are angels and they don't compare 🙄. Also why would they need to pet your pets? That's really a strange thing to say...

I'm 26, brother 21.
We don't call each other, rarely see each other. He doesn't take his shoes off in my house, he called my cat a pos (light hearted). But he's family and I know that he loves me (though he'd cringe if I said that to him).

We've all got our own lives and things to focus on. I know he works 6 days a week and spends his one day off with GF and DSS. I'd never expect him to use manners around me either, it's formal & not necessary IMHO. I know it's implied, so he doesn't need to say it

If you come from a large family I’m guessing that you are older and at a very different age and stage. They are still in thoughtless teen mode, you have moved on.

Wait a few years until you have more in common at it may all change. Just lower your expectations and accept them for now. And no harm in saying they need to take their shoes off, surely?

My BIL was EXACTLY like that at 21. He once asked my MIL to clean his trainers after vomming all over them and her hallway. Rude, loud argumentative.
Thankfully, he is now a kind, attentive, delightful 27 year old. It was a weird phase that has settled. Many people are insufferable and selfish at 21.

I've got a brother now in his mid-twenties. I absolutely love him to pieces, and he's such a sweetheart, but I agree - his manners have been (and sometimes still are) lacking.

Do you think you can approach either one of them - gently - and voice your niggles? Just something like "I know it's not meant this way, but when X happens, it makes me feel Y". Perhaps they'd appreciate it as an older sibling looking out for them (or perhaps not - you know them best).

Like a lot of other posters, I do agree it's an early-twenties thing. I got so peed off with my bro a few years ago for being self-centred and inconsiderate, I'd occasionally gently call him out for it, and then he slowly seemed to change his behaviour. So if you think you can bear it, the behaviour is likely to change.

I have two (one late 30s the other early 40s) and they couldn’t be more different. If I win the Euros tonight I’d cheerfully hire Villanelle to deal with the eldest one. The youngest I’d die for in a heartbeat. They really couldn’t be more different.

Been away in Cornwall, so late reply. Thanks for all the thoughts. For context, was triggered by the second youngest moving out of my house while I was away without telling me. We'd talked about him moving on in a vague sort of way, he went to see a house then without telling me moved out when I was on a work trip. I was his live-in carer for many months while he recovered from a nervous breakdown. My parents and I sacrificed greatly to get this house, I would never have accepted their help to get a mortgage if it hadn't been felt by everyone that my bro needed someone to look after him while he got back on his feet. Now it's like he's moved on, no thanks or by your leave. We will weather it as we've all always been close, I still love him but he's been a bit of a cheeky bugger by not even telling me. I was upset at the time of posting, esp as his mental health is still not great so I do worry about him living independently (he's dyspraxic and borderline Aspergers as well.) But he seems OK so far and it's been nice having my house to myself!

Re black sheep comment - uh, rude. You have no idea of the backstory or how awfully they've behaved in the past, esp towards my parents who could not have done more for them.

Thanks to everyone who had a helpful response and not a judgey comment. I think as PPs have suggested they are still young and will grow up.

The cat/dog thing that seems weird to some people, I guess it's a thing in my family because my parents don't really like animals, yet will be polite with other family members with pets and not insist that the dog/cat be locked away for their visit (which other extended family members do do!) I'm not overly fussed on dogs tbh, yet part of my relationship with one of my other brothers is petting his dog when I go around to his and his gf's house. They're big dog people so I feel it'd be offensive/weird if I didn't interact with their dog (kind of like not really liking babies or children but not being weird about it when it's the child of someone you're close to.) I myself don't have pets.

Shoes things, my bro who lived with me had a habit of leaving his shoes in the way for me to trip over at 6am while leaving for work. It's a tiny thing that is reflective of his general attitude of not really seeming to care about the effort i went to for him on numerous other counts. I guess it was just the lack of reciprocity that irked me.

You're angry that your brother, who you wanted to move out, moved out?
You're angry that he left his shoes in your way?

I don't understand.

Maybe he didn't tell you because he wanted independence and you may have argued with him. You say you worry about him living alone, but I can't imagine many people of that age wanting to live with their sister long term.

The other stuff is just them being younger or having different personalities. I rarely speak to my brother on the phone for example, but we get on well enough when we see each other. I couldn't cope with being in a family where they live in each other's pockets, whereas others love being really close to family. It can just be temperament

I really can't be bothered trying to maintain a relationship with my brother anymore.

He's always been rude to my mum, and still is, at the age of 30. He's rude to my grandparents and doesn't make an effort to talk to them. They can be hard work and tiring but they won't be here forever.

Whenever we see he sits there with a face like a slapped arse and makes no effort to bond with his nephew unless his wife tells him too. Fair enough, kids aren't for everyone, but he'll always message me saying that he was really tired.

Recently my SIL has been messaging me saying he's hit their cats a few times. She's had to tell him to apologise and that he needs to work on his anger management.

He has issues going on with poor sleep and mental health but there's no excuse for hitting anyone, human or animal. He is disrespectful. He is rude. Trying to keep a relationship going and make an effort with him is tiring and draining for my mental health. But he's my brother.

WWYD? Should I bother keeping it up?