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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DH boss is a CF

39 replies

Confusedasnormal · 04/09/2019 23:45

I am fairly sure IANBU but this seems so bonkers that I had to check.

DH is in a fairly new job. The company (or at least his boss) seems like a complete CF.

Today DH got told by his manager that this is not a full working day and that he needs to work 8 hours in addition to travel time.

The day that they were discussing DH let at 6am, drove from near Manchester to Wakefield to do a site visit taking about 30 minutes, then had to drive to Glasgow for another visit taking 30 minutes, then drive home. He arrived home at 7pm.

His ‘place of work’ is near Manchester, he is not field based and was instructed to do the two visits in one day.

I think that in this situation travel time is part of working hours, and the ACAS website seems to support this.

I’ve suggested he should speak to HR to clarify their policy AIBU?

OP posts:
chesterfuckingdraws · 05/09/2019 00:05

The boss is Bonkers! I'd encourage your DH to check his contract and see what his HR dept had to say on it.

FairyDust92 · 05/09/2019 00:10

Travel time is definitely part of working hours! Is he paid PH?
Sounds like my partners soon to be ex boss. He's a fucking tool! Made them stay late on occasions and doesn't pay them! I said to my partner to ask for the extra money for the time he had to stay but he never had the balls to...

PinkLacy · 05/09/2019 00:11

He also needs to be paid mileage.

Original poster
Confusedasnormal · 05/09/2019 00:13

He has a company car and is being paid a minimal mileage rate. He is salaried if that makes a difference.

TBH I think he should just start looking for something else.

OP posts:
Durgasarrow · 05/09/2019 00:29

If boss doesn't want your husband to count travel time, then he should just let your husband chitchat over the phone for half an hour. If he wants him to drive for hours, then he sure as hell should pay for a full day of work.

runoutofnamechanges · 05/09/2019 00:35

YANBU Travel time to somewhere other than his regular place of work (if he has one) is most definitely working time because he is at his employer's disposal (ie he is being told what to do as part of his job). CF indeed. In fact, if he worked longer than his contracted hours because of the long journeys, he may be due overtime, depending on his contract...

Seren85 · 05/09/2019 00:48

When we travel for work, that's work. Wouldn't be doing it otherwise. I try to work on the train but often can't. Still technically working just by being there.

ReanimatedSGB · 05/09/2019 00:58

Is the company big enough to have HR staff? What does your H's contract say about travel time, etc? If this is some small independent business, then your H should look at getting another job because the boss is clearly a CF who thinks that everyone he employs should be willing to serve him unquestioningly; if it's a big company they need to be complying with employment law regarding hours, overtime and travel.

Patnotpending · 05/09/2019 01:12

YANBU, any travelling that your DH has to do in order to carry out his work should be counted as working hours. But some employers really don't like doing this and he probably needs to take a look at his contract and see what it says on this subject and possibly get advice.

About 15 years ago I started a part-time job (18 hours a week) for an organisation that required me to make a trip most weeks to check on various projects it was involved in. The nearest was a two-hour train journey away, the most remote took more than five hours to get to. I had to go by public transport and often left the house at 5am and didn't return until 10pm or later if there were problems with the trains. It was a real shock to find my employer didn't include this travel time as working hours. I would be away for 18 hours on their business and find that they only counted the time I'd actually spent in a meeting as work.

I checked my contract and there was no specific mention of travel time and working hours so I went to ACAS. It wasn't, back then, quite as straightforward as I had expected it to be: there was a grey area around what was considered the start of my working day – was it when I arrived in Sheffield (say) for the meeting or was it when I boarded the train to start my journey there?

My employer eventually agreed to count all travel-for-work hours as working hours but expected me to work while travelling and monitored me for working activity while travelling. There was enormous ill-feeling and resentment all round and I left as soon as I could. I hope your DH does better.

Shouldcolder · 05/09/2019 01:24

He needs to speak to HR. They will quite possibly keel over when they hear this nonsense.

chickenyhead · 05/09/2019 01:34

Travel time in excess of his normal journey to work is valid. But the journey from home to the office is his choice.

crustycrab · 05/09/2019 01:44

Everyone assuming the company has HR?!

StoppinBy · 05/09/2019 02:45

Usually work hours start when you either arrive at your first job or arrive at head office to head off for the days work. Work time finishes when he either leaves the last job or clocks off from head office if he goes back via the office.

littleorangecat22 · 05/09/2019 03:38

Travel time on a work trip = working especially if much further than regular commute. Not only should it be considered work time, but he should be compensated for the travel expense.

Jesaminecollins · 05/09/2019 04:50

He needs to paid for his travel time and petrol money.

transformandriseup · 05/09/2019 05:28

Wow!! Some companies really take the piss!! So they are saying he has only worked for 1 hour?

From our dockyard some employees will drive across the country and back to pick up one small part. We pay them fuel allowance, and £20 for meals on top of their wages.

Ilikethisone · 05/09/2019 05:33

Travelling to your usual place of work, isnt working.

This extra travelling for visits is definitely work. I have a company car and start work when I get to me office. When I travel to our other offices, even if the meeting finishes at 2pm and get home at 3.30pm (earlier than my usual finish time) I am classed as working a full day.

IF the company with HR, I would he suggests he speaks to them. Even if he does have HR I would start looking for something else, this boss is a prick and its shit working for someone like that.

MaybeitsMaybelline · 05/09/2019 06:07

I agree with everyone else. My contractual place of work is Leeds. I WFH most of the time, but if I go into Leeds it’s in my time as it’s my Contractual HQ. It takes 30 minutes to get there.

If however I have to travel to Manchester this is the opposite direction from my home but takes longer. It takes 45 minutes to get there, so I would be “clocked on” for want of a better term, for 15 minutes of my journey to Manchester.

Saying all that, DH is much more senior than me and paid a lot more. He doesn’t have a start and end time irrespective of what his contract says. Yesterday he did a 448 mile round trip in a day, with a meeting in between which was 15 hours in total. His HQ is in Leeds. He won’t get extra pay, but on his salary I wouldn’t expect it. It’s the nature of the beast.

user1493413286 · 05/09/2019 06:26

If it’s extra travel time to his normal place of work then it’s part of the working day. His boss is ridiculous

Stompythedinosaur · 05/09/2019 06:44

Of course travel time is part of the working day!

IfIShouldFallFromGraceWithGod · 05/09/2019 06:48

Of course travel should be considered work
It isn't for carers who work for private agencies. They only get paid for the visits. They could work a 10 hour day and only get paid for 8
It stinks and should be illegal imo

LIZS · 05/09/2019 06:53

That is a lot of travel time for one day. Who determines his schedule? If he planned visits so far apart but could have combined them with different locations or on another day so that the travel time was more efficiently used then It is not unreasonable a comment. If he had to visit those sites on that particular day then cheeky. Travel between home and office/main location is not included in the working day unless there is a policy to contrary.

WitsEnding · 05/09/2019 06:56

Travel time away from your normal place of work is considered working time under the Working Time Regulations which mandate breaks etc. Thank you EU.

Doesn't necessarily mean you get paid for it.

MyOtherProfile · 05/09/2019 06:58

I'm peripatetic and work for the local council. My work starts when I arrive at my first school. The rest of the day is spent either driving or in appointments. It all counts as my working day. I get 48p a mile for all travel in a day minus the mileage it would take me to get to my local council office.

BarbaraofSeville · 05/09/2019 06:58

Of course the whole day was a working day (or possibly they might expect him to deduct normal commuting time if he went straight from home to Wakefield).

If he has a company car, he's only entitled to expenses for fuel, not wear and tear, so the 'minimal mileage rate' is probably right, and here are the rates he should get:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/advisory-fuel-rates/advisory-fuel-rates-from-1-march-2016

But it sounds like his work needs to organise themselves better as it's very inefficient for one person to spend most of the day driving to do two short visits so far apart.

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