To tell you why I voted to leave

[readingreadingreading]

I'm not brave enough to say this IRL and that is part of the problem.

I refuse to believe that I, or 52% of the British population are either thick or racist. I also think that such a pessimistic view of our population is leading to more divisions.

I have wanted to leave the EU since the Maastricht treaty was signed (I even sent off for a copy of it). I always said I'd campaign to leave as soon as I got the chance. I didn't campaign as it would have meant aligning with groups such as Farage which I do think are racist. But I still chose to vote leave.

I think the EU are getting too big and have always been too bureaucratic. The countries aligned to it are too varied for a common purpose to be right for everyone.

I don't know if we have an immigration problem or not. If we do we need to be able to restrict the number of nationals of other European countries moving here. If we don't we should be a lot more welcoming to people from other parts of the world, people who really need asylum. The current situation has desperate people turned away at borders and highly skilled workers having to jump through hoops for a job where they are wanted and needed.

No of course I didn't believe there would be extra money for the NHS. However I think currently we give money to the EU and we get money back whereas giving the same money directly to British needs would be a better use of it. Not to mention the savings from all the extra MPs.

I'm old enough to remember life before the EU. We managed to travel to Europe, live and work in different countries, eat food and not go to war. I'm reasonably sure we can continue to do so without them.

I don't think the EU can last much longer and I thought (wrongly) that coming out now in an orderly fashion would be better that having it all crash down around us. I'm nervous of new laws being enacted that we have no veto on and drifting into closer integration.

I hate to watch the current mess and no, this isn't what I voted for. But if we can't get out there shouldn't have been a vote and I don't think everything can be blamed on the leavers.

My take on it is the remain types are the doers in this world and the leavers the people who just complain

Thanks so much for that wonderfully incisive and detailed insight - it's really helped me understand some things.

Rees-Mogg was saying how the “civil-servants” are sorting things out (I bet he really does think of them as being menial servants and I bet there are many who’ve met him and loathe him!).

I didn't contemplate voting leave because I could not see how it could be done without having a terrible effect on the economy or how it could be done at all.

I never claimed to be detailed and incisive, it is just what I think (which isn’t much obviously!)

That does not actually make sense (Greece's problems being our fault - I assume you mean their fault?)

I meant that both Ireland's and Greece's problems were largely our own fault (Ireland's and Greece's fault).

But as for all the complaints about the EU in this thread...
Your government signed the Maastricht Treaty without consulting the electorate, and ever treaty after that.

Your government decided to open its labour market to people from the new EU member states, unlike most other EU member states

every treaty after that

@Longlongsummer

One of the things I have found really sad is that people who voted leave and regret it don't feel able to express it without being ridiculed.

The last line of the opening post shouldn't be "this isn't what I voted for, please don't hate me." It should be "I was fucking lied to, people in positions of power and who were given airtime as experts told me that this wouldn't happen and that the other campaigners were just trying to scare me."

I know that I have been so angry (DH is from another EU country and we are working abroad so we are likely to be massively impacted) that I have found it hard at times not to direct that anger at anyone who voted leave but really the only Leavers I am angry with are those who feel that any consequence is ok as long as they get Brexit.

I wouldn't have thought I have anything politically in common with Ken Clarke but his behaviour this week has really made me realise that this is a time for heroes and bastards. Boris Johnson is a bastard and Clarke is a hero, willing to make sacrifices and compromise in order to help the country.

@Ghostontoast those civil servants are tired, worn out and really angry! I know because I know some and they are up to their ears with being given the job that really, the Leave campaign should have been crystal clear on in the first place.

@MaximusHeadroom yes abroad too. I will be massively impacted. Agree about Ken Clarke.

Although one parent voted Leave and I’ve yet to tell them how I feel, they are in a bubble and keep going on about it. Branded me a lefty hippy liberal for being remain. So I think plenty of Leavers feel no embarrassment at all. My parent also quoted reasons similar to OPs, and is not racist, however is too entrenched now to admit. Hey I was wrong!

OP you could be a hero too. Write to your MP and Boris!

@Juells I agree with everything you’re saying. It’s so depressing how people swallowed the anti EU rhetoric peddled in tabloids and by Farage, when in most instances the UK govt were responsible.
It’s such blatant misdirection- like Boris trying to label all anti no deal action as part of Corbyn’s grandplan/ somehow aligned with hard left. Err, what? Ken Clarke isn’t exactly a Red Ken.
I also agree with you it is hugely admirable the brave MPs who have stood up for the country (All parts of the UK, nb!) rather than being part of the sheeplike herd toeing the increasingly ridiculous party line even when it means contradicting themselves on prorogation (Raab, Gove etc). Bravest of all possibly Jo Johnson.

I also voted leave, I have two degrees and a PGCE. Leave voters are not stupid or deluded. I do feel leave voters are jumped on by the many remain voters on here.

Leave voters are not stupid or deluded. I do feel leave voters are jumped on by the many remain voters on here.

Leave voters always say this: “I/we are not stupid. I have a degree.”

And then they list their reasons for leaving which show them to be naive, poorly informed and, in some cases, deluded.

This thread is a good example.

My take on it is the remain types are the doers in this world and the leavers the people who just complain

Remainers were all too busy to go and vote then, is that the excuse now?

My take on is it that Leave voters may be thick but at least they reasilised they needed to turn up and vote.

I don't think very many (there will always be a nasty fringe of any block of people) say that leavers are think and racist. There are a LOT of commentators (Julia Hartley Brewer, Chloe Westey, etc) who say that remainers SAY that leavers are thick and racist.

Some leavers are thick. Some remainers are thick.
Some leavers are racist. Some remainers are racist.

I am a scientist. I mainly voted remain because it is much better for science and the economy.

I was a reluctant remainer for many of the reasons you gave OP. If asked to vote again, I would actually leave now. My main reason for voting in was the importance of the EU in keeping peace across Europe for more than 50 years. However, I now think that the way it has developed it is going to lead to conflict rather than prevent it.

With regards to Brexit supporters being labelled as racist, it seems that a number of people in this country believe that any desire to control immigration is racist. That is ridiculous. We have limited space and financial means. We cannot take in the whole World! Things started to go wrong as far as the free movement of people is concerned when the EU was expanded significantly. I for one cannot believe that these problems were not anticipated. English is the second language of the World so it should have been pretty obvious that we would attract large volumes of people for that alone. That, combined with our reputation for tolerance, meant that we were always going to be extremely attractive to those living in what were basically second World countries.

I read and read and read before I voted, right across the political spectrum, and I asked DS, who wasn't quite old enough to vote, which way he would vote, and followed his preference as he will live longer with the consequences. His view, based on fairly wide reading of digital media, was Leave. I voted with deep misgivings, as I voted in, in 1975. But the referendum should have been held in 1992 when the Common Market set out on the path to Union, as Ireland and Denmark did.

Having read Yanis Varoufakis' two books, and listened to him on the radio, it's clear why the negotiations have been protracted and the tactics so odious. I took particular exception to Martin Selmayr's remark, reported in The Times during the campaign, that nobody without a degree should be entitled to a vote. That one comment summed up the attitudes that have dominated the debate ever since. With that, he would have disenfranchised some 90% of the older population, as only about 5% of school leavers in 1974 went to university.

Totally agree with you OP! I’m a well educated individual that tbh is fed up with being told I’m racist, stupid, uneducated and every other name under the sun. To have ‘friends’ on FB feel perfectly entitled to share awful posts about us ‘leave voters’ - literally bulling and vitriolic is utterly astounding. As I watch the news and see people spouting hate against leave-voters is embarrassing for society! I knew what I was voting for and it’s for the exact same reason you list. Honestly wish people would grow the fuck up and not make people feel like utter trash for voting leave - it’s undemocratic and I feel sad for your soul!

If asked to vote again, I would actually leave now.

No deal? Or..what?

Reading this thread I see there a lot of the people I have listed on here

Well I campaigned for Remain as I thought it best to be 'inside the tent' but many many people I know voted Leave & have not changed their minds at all. Most are 1st generation British. Many Eastern European who think our immigration is mad frankly. Many others Indian or Pakistani who are bullish about UK bring able to trade more widely than EU rules allow. A few Irish connected to the construction industry who voted Leave to a man. All seriously pissed off with Tories and Labour alike. I keep my head down these days.

NoBaggyPants
Great questions. I'd like to add if she also remembers life pre NHS and does the poster understand how the rest of the world works?
It's a very insular ideology imo.

I knew what I was voting for and it’s for the exact same reason you list

The OP said she had no clue on NI and her thoughts on immigration are extremely naive, Is that the same for you?

@BunsyGirl
@MrsBadcrumble123
@XingMing

So if you feel leave is the right answer and you have all thoroughly researched your choice what do you propose for the UK border with Ireland?

Bearing in mind that even the backstop is only a temporary measure.

@BunsyGirl

We have the right to send eu immigrants back if they have become “a burden on the welfare state” which is usually taken to mean if they have been unemployed fir 6 months - but our government chose not to implement that

Non eu immigration we have the right to control as we see fit and we have more non eu immigration than eu immigration

Why then is our immigration issue the EUs fault?

Bound to have ended like it has because The Establishment were NEVER going to let us leave. UKIP under Farage wee in no way racist though it suited the remain MSM to portray them thus; but after he left, the party did go of the rails and still is so I left and subscribed to the Brexit Party. Many MPs have behaved disgracefully and anti-democratically and history will judge them - if the EU doesn't rewrite the history (as it most certainly will).