Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Londoners tried to warn the rest of the country about Boris

90 replies

Tellmetruth4 · 04/09/2019 06:27

BJs performance yesterday was woeful. He’s a terrible public speaker and when his blustering and attempts at jokes, throwing in some Kipling, war rhetoric and Latin with arms flailing didn’t work, he sat sulking like a schoolboy.

He was lazy and boorish as London mayor. How on earth did he manage to convince Tory members that he would make a good PM? He thought he was entitled to the top job but was seriously found out yesterday.

Seems like Cummings isn’t the strategic genius he hyped himself up to be and JRMs disrespectful performance deserves its its own thread. BJs picked a team of liabilities. Theresa May must have laughed herself to sleep last night.

OP posts:
ScreamingLadySutch · 04/09/2019 14:27

In my experience it is REMAINERS who scream and emote, sneer and disparage - but don't have the faintest idea what the issues are.

MaggietheHorseThief · 04/09/2019 14:30

economic turbulence

This is such a lovely euphemism, isn't it? Spot of turbulence. A wee bit of discomfort and then back to business as usual. Such a cheerful fantasy.

ScreamingLadySutch · 04/09/2019 15:01

@MaggietheHorseThief who told you that life should be nice and stable and without any challenge to grow? What is that quote about invention? The mother of necessity. There is a reason that the UK has received more techno investment than Germany and France combined - because UK won't be shackled by EU 'regulations'.

Anyhow, this is an interesting article (hope its OK to 'publish' here):

ScreamingLadySutch · 04/09/2019 15:01

Corbyn, not Boris, was the real loser last night
Toby Young

Jeremy Corbyn – did he make a strategic blunder yesterday? Photo by Anthony Devlin/Getty Images
Toby Young
4 September 2019
10:45 AM
The Remainers are celebrating after last tonight’s defeat of the government and writing Boris off as a busted flush. ‘Johnson’s Brexit strategy in ruins as anti-no deal MPs inflict defeat,’ says the headline on this morning’s FT. But I’m not convinced this was such a bad night for the Prime Minister.

Boris’s response to yesterday’s loss has been to table a motion calling for a general election. Corbyn’s position, as I understand it, is that he will only agree to an election after the ‘anti-no deal bill’ forcing Boris to ask for an extension of the Brexit deadline on 19 October has been approved by both Houses of Parliament. (Boris refers to it as ‘Jeremy Corbyn’s surrender bill’.) Assuming the bill isn’t ‘talked out’ in the Lords, and assuming Boris doesn’t advise the Queen to withhold her assent, that would effectively prevent Boris from setting an election date after 31 October. Until now, Downing Street has maintained that if the government was defeated by a vote of no confidence, the PM would not resign, but sit on his hands for the 14-day period stipulated in the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, at which point a general election would automatically be triggered. He would then set the date of the election for after 31 October, so the UK would leave the European Union by default during the campaign.

If the extension bill becomes law, by contrast, Boris cannot pursue that strategy. Even if he set the date of the election after 31 October, he would still have to ask for an extension on 19 October in his capacity as caretaker Prime Minister and the election would take place before we’ve left.

So Corbyn’s reasoning is that if he makes his support of a general election conditional on the bill becoming law, Boris will have no choice but to set the date of the election before 31 October. Assuming it plays out as expected, an election will still take place, but in mid-October – 15 October is the likely date – rather than after we’ve left. It will effectively be a second referendum on Brexit. Provided the Conservatives win that contest, the passing of the extension bill won’t tie Boris’s hands because he can use his majority to repeal the new law before it compels him to ask for an extension on 19 October. He can go then go to the European Council meeting on 17 October and credibly threaten no deal if there’s still no renegotiation and take Britain out on 31 October whether he gets a new deal or not.

But will the Tories win? Corbyn’s calculation is that they’re less likely to if the election is held before we’ve left than after, presumably because he believes the pro-Brexit vote will be split between the Conservatives and the Brexit Party. No doubt the Brexit Party will still pose a threat to the Tories after we’ve left, but much less of one, particularly if Boris takes us out with no deal.

There’s some logic to this. While it’s possible that Boris and Nigel Farage will enter into an electoral pact – something I discuss in my Spectator column this week – the chances of that are quite low. Boris will be concerned that an alliance with Farage will drive some Conservative voters into the arms of the Liberal Democrats, particularly in the 25 per cent of Tory seats where a majority voted Remain in 2016, while Farage will be wary of alienating potential Labour defectors. There’s also the fact that Boris would prefer to leave with a deal, whereas Farage has said he won’t countenance a pact unless Boris unequivocally endorses no deal.

But the difficulty for Corbyn is that the pro-Remain forces are even more divided. I daresay some of those Labour voters who defected to the Lib Dems, the Greens and Plaid Cymru in the European elections in May will return to the fold, but if the current polls are anything to go by not nearly enough. On the contrary, the latest YouGov poll puts the Conservative on 34 per cent and Labour on 22 per cent, enough to give the Tories a comfortable majority.

Now, a lot can happen during a general election campaign, as we saw in 2017. But the gulf between a Labour Party led by Jeremy ‘constructive ambiguity’ Corbyn and the unambiguously pro-Remain parties is surely greater than that between the Boris-led Conservatives and the Brexit Party. That’s particularly true, given that Boris has expelled those MPs who voted against the government last night (and may be one reason he did it). So unless something goes badly wrong, the Conservatives are less likely to bleed votes to the Brexit Party than Labour to the pro-Remain parties. And don’t forget that Boris’s track record when it comes to winning elections is pretty good. Unlikely Theresa May, he’s been tried and tested in the field.

If this analysis is correct, the corollary is that Labour would have a better chance of winning an election if it was held after we’ve left, particularly if we leave with no deal and the effects are as catastrophic as Corbyn seems to think. In those circumstances, there would be less chance of Labour voters defecting to the Lib Dems, the Greens or the Welsh nationalists. On the contrary, it would be a straight fight between Labour and the Conservatives, with Europe no longer an issue capable of splitting the anti-Tory vote. A post-Brexit election would be about the NHS, the economy, education, etc. – safer ground for Corbyn.

So it could be that Corbyn made a strategic blunder yesterday by, effectively, forcing Boris to hold a general election in which Europe will be the central issue. I’m not suggesting this was Dominic Cummings’ master plan all along. I think he and Boris and the rest of the top team would prefer to leave on 31 October without the necessity of having to win an election first because, of course, they might not win and that would probably mean the end of Brexit. But the situation they find themselves in is clearly a contingency they’ve been preparing for. Keir Starmer said on the Today programme this morning that Labour would delay an election until after the bill has become law because it refused ‘to dance to Boris’s tune’. But I can still hear Boris’s tune playing in the background. Not the A-side perhaps, but the B-side.

I may be wrong about what will happen in the next few days. The extension bill may not receive Royal Assent and, even if it does, Corbyn may change his mind about supporting Boris’s call for a general election. Assuming the bill does pass, he may decide to ‘no confidence’ Boris instead. But in the absence of Corbyn being able to install himself as Prime Minister – and he doesn’t have the votes for that – it would lead to an election anyway. So whatever happens, it looks like we’re heading for a snap election in mid-October – one the Conservatives are odds-on to win.

ScreamingLadySutch · 04/09/2019 15:07

And an opposite view:
Will Jeremy Corbyn keep Boris Johnson dangling?
Robert Peston

Robert Peston
4 September 2019
8:55 AM
Jeremy Corbyn is now in charge – even though he isn’t prime minister.

And he faces the most important judgement of his life in the coming days.

Does he allow a general election before the EU council of 17 October and take the risk of Johnson winning that election and repealing the law (likely to be passed in coming days) that would force him to ask for a Brexit delay?

Or does he keep Johnson dangling, because with the support of the 21 Tory MPs expelled last night by Johnson, Corbyn now has the power to decide when and even whether there is a general election?

He could insist that no election will be permitted till Johnson has attempted what the PM insists is eminently possible (don’t snort, David Gauke), namely negotiating with the EU those famously elusive alternative arrangements that would see the backstop removed from May’s Brexit deal.

Corbyn will be aware that the spectacle of Johnson begging EU leaders for a Brexit deal would see Johnson humiliated and the Tory party losing yet more support to the Brexit party.

There would be costs to Labour from keeping Johnson dangling, because both main parties have suffered ebbing support for their respective failures to either deliver Brexit or revoke it.

But the costs to the Tories would be worse.

Here is the measure of the madness. Johnson doesn’t have the numbers to do anything, yet it may not be in Corbyn’s and Labour’s interest to put him and us out of our misery.

This is not a constitution crisis. It is a constitutional failure.

Robert Peston is ITV’s Political Editor. This article originally appeared on his ITV news blog.

LakieLady · 04/09/2019 15:13

He looked like a man who had lost control last night - glowering, frustrated, blustering.

He was even worse on PMQ's earlier. Just watched it on catch-up, and he was a complete shambles. I thought he was going to blow a gasket.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 04/09/2019 15:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lowlandlucky · 04/09/2019 15:39

I dont think i would take any notice of Londoners after all you made Khunt Khan Mayor

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 04/09/2019 15:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ringdonna · 04/09/2019 15:43

I think BJ is great and not as daft as you think......

ScreamingLadySutch · 04/09/2019 15:45

"Parliament is actually the one holding a coup. MPs have voted to take control of the order paper in order to take control of the Brexit negotiating process: they want to rule out a no-deal Brexit, thus completely undermining the Government's strategy. It's highly irregular for the Commons to dictate foreign policy like this, let alone on such suicidal terms. It's like sending the army to liberate the Falklands armed only with a colander and a spoon.

"Fine," says the Government, "if you don't like our policy, let's have an election." "Um, no," says Parliament. Why? Because the Government's policy is quite popular and its opponents might lose. Parliament says it is extending oversight and renewing democracy. It's not. It's blocking an election."

  • Tim Stanley
smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 04/09/2019 15:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ColaFreezePop · 04/09/2019 15:54

@ScreamingLadySutch you are odd.

The referendum asked a binary question. The leave side did not explain what would happen with our land border with the EU due to the Good Friday Agreement.

Well to be fair some of them did and they promised us we could have our cake and eat by having all the benefits of the EU without the downsides of being out of it.

Oh and both sides lied. The leave side lied in their campaign, while the government of the day was on the remain side but kept blaming the EU for things within their control e.g. putting in restrictions to freedom of movement other EU countries have in place.

areyoubeingserviced · 04/09/2019 16:21

The worst thing about Boris is that he is a man with little principle. No one really knows whether he is an ardent Brexiteer or a remainer. What we do know is that he’s a self serving , opportunist whose only interest was being PM.

MaggietheHorseThief · 04/09/2019 16:51

who told you that life should be nice and stable and without any challenge to grow? What is that quote about invention? The mother of necessity. There is a reason that the UK has received more techno investment than Germany and France combined - because UK won't be shackled by EU 'regulations'.

Only someone whose political views are inspired by a budget greeting card manufacturer would think that intentionally creating an economic downturn, life threatening supply shortages, and civil unrest would try to claim that we are entering a new golden age of industrial prowess.

London (specifically - not the UK as a whole) continues to be a strong centre for tech investment, but it has very little to do with your vague and unsubstantiated notion that it's because we are free from EU regulation, and everything to do with the fact that London has the requisite universities and talent pool - both things likely to be negatively impacted by Brexit.

It's worth noting, moreover, that while the UK's tech sector currently holds pole position in Europe, France is attracting almost the same level of early-stage funding, and their share is made up of a larger number of deals, indicating that they will soon surpass the UK. The UK's power in this area is dwindling, and will drop off a cliff if we exit the EU without a deal.

Meanwhile, foreign investment into the UK's most productive industries, including financial services and automotive, has fallen to the lowest level in 6 years because uncertainty over future trading arrangements with the EU is stopping businesses from committing to investment. Reports from business consultancy firms are absolutely clear that the Brexit vote is negatively affecting foreign investment. This in turn has led to a downturn in job creation.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread