Are these new school dress codes unreasonable?

[CanadianJohn]

From an article in the Toronto Globe and Mail...

"A cursory scan of dress codes across Canadian schools finds them peppered with words such as “modesty,” “appropriate,” “respectful,” “common sense” and “good taste.”
...
"Across the country, several school boards – including the Toronto District School Board, Canada’s largest – are doing away with the concept of modesty in their policies, replacing it with a new priority: “student voice."
...
"The new codes all come with some limits. Toronto stipulates no nipples, buttocks or genitals exposed and all the codes ban hateful messaging and put safety first, meaning no stilettos in gym class or billowing tops in chemistry. But these school boards have drawn a line in the sand – staff will no longer be tasked with policing students’ dress or their bodies.
...
"The policy-makers’ philosophy is this: Letting students wear what they’re comfortable in helps them feel welcome at school and more engaged in their learning. "

www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-is-modesty-no-longer-the-best-policy-on-dress-codes-canadian/

It seems to me that the adults have abdicated their responsibility. Can we really allow teenagers to dress as they please. Most students may well dress modestly, but it would only take one student in a backless top and yoga pants to distract the others.

What do people think?

Why do teens need to learn to dress well? Why does anybody? Who cares if something is flattering or if someone is 'badly dressed'? Who defines that? It's just as prescriptive as school uniform.

My DC's school is on its 4th uniform since my eldest DC started there. The current version (introduced only 2 years since the last major change) requires girls to wear skirts in a particular style that "do not ride up or cling to the body". There is nothing about how tight trousers should be or whether boys are allowed to wear clothes which cling.

Meanwhile, while parents complain (rightly) about expensive changes (badged PE kit, blazer, tie, single approved skirt, only black coats etc) our attention is distracted from the real issue in the school: a management style which has led to a massive exodus of experienced and competent teachers. If it weren't for the fact youngest DC is going into their final year, and we live semi-rurally with no other high schools for 13 miles, we'd be out of there.

I like the idea of a dress code.

Staff in our school can wear anything provided you can’t see up it, down it or through it. Seems to work.

The vast majority of teens I see out of uniform day to day including my own wear jeans/leggings/joggers/shorts and t-shirts or jumpers with trainers.
I do not see why they can't wear that at school.

kids are almost uniformly in jeans and jumpers/tshirts and trainers.

Yes this. You could get a complete outfit for £20. Durable and washable. Our school uniform is madness

As a teacher, I don't care it it's uniform or not, so long as I don't have to deal with it. No uniform is fine - sixth formers manage it. Younger kids and parents would just need to adjust.

I don't have a problem with a strict uniform policy, but I feel awkward challenging kids about their trainers, lack of blazer etc when it's parents who haven't bought them - often because they cannot afford to replace uniform when kids have grown out of shoes or whatever.

Easier to have no uniform than to have one you cannot enforce because families cannot afford it.

Modesty is generally a term used to justify men controlling women's bodies imo.

If a student is distracted by someone else's clothes then the focus should be on help I g that individual develop greater focus and self-control, rather than blaming someone else (generally a girl).

I'm all in favour of this.

I grew up and went to school in Germany from the mid 80s onwards, started secondary in 1989, not once was the lack of a dress code an issue.
In the mid-nineties quite a few girls went with crop tops, but stopped once winter came. And don't remind me of the Adidas trousers with the buttons on the side...

All in all, everyone dressed quite sensibly, mostly jeans and sweatshirts.

it would only take one student in a backless top and yoga pants to distract the others.

Could you please expand on exactly what you think this scenario would be?

I agreed with you as I would worry there would be too much emphasis on appearances and people thinking about what they're wearing instead of what they're doing. Until you mentioned that the drawback could be being distracted by yoga pants and backless tops. That is really not the reason. Sexist codswallop.

I teach in a sixth form college with no dress code and have never seen a student dressed inappropriately. I guess some girls like short shorts and skirts in summer but they’re no more than you’d see on any high street, and the girls walking past to the school next door in uniform routinely wear much more revealing skirts and tighter trousers if that’s the issue...

Also went to school without any dresscode and there were no issues with someone showing up in a bikini.

I think your entire attitude that someone should be banned from dressing a certain way because it's a distraction to someone else is the very crux of the problem. If someone is distracted, that is their own problem. Not the problem of the person they are distracted by. To think otherwise is victim blaming and the reason why the majority of the people who object to dress codes do so. Why would someone's back or yoga pants be distracting to someone else? It's ridiculous. People need to understand that the only person they can control is themselves, then they need to figure out how to do it, without infinging on the rights, space or personal choices of yhe people around them. I would be speechless if my son came home from school claiming he couldn't function because he was distracted by a classmate wearing yoga pants. I'd feel ashamed of the way i raised him and consider myself a failure as a parent.

Why do teens need to learn to dress well? Why does anybody?

Maybe because it's a useful life skill to have? It's not always needed of course, but having it might at least avoid turning up for interviews looking like something the cat dragged in

I’m Head of Sixth Form in a Girls’ School. I’ve relaxed the dress code massively compared to what it used to be but we have a no shoulders, boobs, bums or stomachs rule, no excessively high heels and we only allow sensible length fake nails. It’s not just about kids getting distracted (although I do think it is difficult to concentrate if you’re constantly hiking up your top or pulling down the bottom of your skirt because your clothing doesn’t cover you up enough to make you feel comfortable moving around.) These teenage girls spend a huge amount of their time out in a world where there is huge pressure on them to wear clothing that is highly sexualised and I don’t want that pressure in my school. The fashions for skirts so tight they can’t walk at normal speeds, fake nails so long that they can’t participate in sports or even open their own water bottles and heels so high that 20 mins into prom all the girls are barefoot reduce them to decorative objects. I find it quite disturbing actually. If that’s how they want to dress for a party then that is their choice, but it’s not practical for school. You can’t have bare thighs when you spend 2 hours at a time sat on plastic chairs, you can’t write a 3 hour English Literature exam with huge, curved-over fake nails, you can’t move between lessons in a crowded corridor if you’re teetering along in a too-tight pencil skirt on too-high heels.
I think a lot of the backlash against “modesty” type rules, whilst well meaning, works in the interests of the patriarchy. These pornified fashion trends are not empowering.

If people can be so easily distracted by someone wearing a backless top or yoga pants its amazing gyms aren't constant disaster zones with people injuring themselves on the equipment, or that streets aren't full of people tripping over their feet in distraction, or that cashiers aren't constantly giving out the wrong change by that mind-altering flash of bare shoulder....I mean, how does the world keep turning? It's amazing anyone gets anything done in the summer, and that warmer countries can achieve anything at all!

School can be boring and it's easy to be 'distracted' by: seeing what's out the window, a fly buzzing around the classroom, feeling hot/cold/hungry/thirsty/tired, needing the toilet, a light flickering, someone dropping a pencil, your mobile phone, worrying about your friends/parents/bf/gf/exam results, what game you are going to play on the xbox when you get home, what's for tea, etc. etc. Are schools going to try and mitigate all of this? No, because a) "distracting" in this context actual means "arousing" and is geared almost exclusively towards blaming teenage girls for wearing utterly normal clothing, and b) because life is distracting and learning to concentrate on what is relevant is a skill that needs developing

I went to a secondary school in the early 80's where uniform started off as optional & was abolished by the end of my second year. Nobody got sent home or punished for unsuitable dress, the majority wore Jean's, Tshirts & trainers which meant all the staff's time & energy was put in to teaching & not policing pupil's dress.

@FamilyOfAliens

Tentative wave to possible colleague...

I love Canada. Always twenty years behind.
Here in darkest Alberta there is no sign of a shoulder, or any sign of leg above your hanging fingertips for shorts length. It makes me laugh, because the minute grad arrives, the girls are all boobs and thigh high splits and no one bats an eyelid.
They mostly all exist in jeans and hoodies year round anyway. With snow suits until they get to 13 and refuse to wear them.
Slow news day at the Globe and Mail...

Out of the news articles I remember about children being sent home for breaking the school dress code (all US), one young girl was sent home for wearing a top with spaghetti straps and a young lady was sent home because she was wearing a black top with no bra underneath.

Most "victims" of strict school dress codes seem to be female. I quite like a school uniform TBF bc you don't need to think about clothes,

A PP who said school uniforms just lead to young adults never learning how to style themselves made me laugh! Some cultures well known for their fashion/style had a school uniform.

'It’s not just about kids getting distracted (although I do think it is difficult to concentrate if you’re constantly hiking up your top or pulling down the bottom of your skirt because your clothing doesn’t cover you up enough to make you feel comfortable moving around.) '

In usa (not sure about Canada but the modesty comment indicates similar) the distraction to boys is a big deal. Girls must dress modestly so boys are not distracted. Girls who are generous of figure are deemed distracting because no matter what clothes they wear, they have women's bodies.

Context is all.

I find the above post disingenuous.

Didn’t have a uniform growing up in the US (thank god!) and our generation survived. There was a dress code like most places have, but very rare that someone broke it. The punishment if they did, depending on what rule they broke was usually just turning the shirt inside out or having to put on something from gym class. Most students went about their business and wore jeans/trousers and trainers.

If you’re worried about your kids being distracted by another person’s body/clothes, you obviously failed somewhere as a parent. How are they going to handle distractions when they’re in the “real” world?

We don’t have any boys so them getting distracted is irrelevant to us. The education of boys is not my job, I educate girls.

Dress codes that emphasize modesty put the onus on girls to not be physically appealing to the boys. It is inherently sexist. Girls have been pulled out of class for ridiculous things like having nipples creating a bump on a sweatshirt. School clothing should be comfortable, weather appropriate, and not not contain vulgar messages or hate speech.

Are you a man, CanadianJohn?

I wonder if ‘no nipples’ used to extend to boys as well as girls? Somehow I doubt it. Policing clothing virtually always means policing girls’ clothing.

Sabine context is all. When throwing an opinion into the hat.