To be angry at those celebrating the death of retail

[TheMessyCleaner]

I'm a member of a zero waste group who are all ecstatic that research is showing that people are shopping less and lots of shops are closing down.
I used to work in retail, dp works in retail, bff works in retail, MIL works in retail. Yes capitalism has to go but we don't have an alternative yet. All that will end up happening is more employment, more people struggling on universal credit.
I get so sick of people with very good salaries telling people on the breadline that they should be happy that change is coming and that soon we'll all be small scale farmers and live in a world where we swap beans for handmade clothes. We are so so far from that vision.
Nothing makes your blood boil when you are struggling to get by like someone on £50K telling you to go for a walk or take your kids to the park when you just want to earn enough to be able to take them to the cinema for a treat once in the summer holidays.
Sorry I think I projecting

I suspect shops are closing down because people are buying more on line and because rents are so high, not that people are buying less. That's an illusion.

Judging by the queues of people at our local rubbish tip disposing of 'stuff' over the weekend, including one chap putting 12 full bags in the clothes bin, I can't believe people are buying less .

I was disposing of a cardboard box (left in the garage from 4 years ago) which was too big for my recycling bin! Can't even remember what came in the box

capitalism has to go

I'm a member of a zero waste group who are all ecstatic that research is showing that people are shopping less and lots of shops are closing down.

If the group isn’t aligned with your perspective, leave. Adopt a ‘Zero waste of energy not getting angry about opinions I don’t like’ outlook.

Easy peasy.

I also think that most people are still buying, although online now.

I also can’t understand those who seem to celebrate shops on the high street like M&S doing badly. Many smaller town centres have lost so many shops, and don’t seem to have a real replacement, becoming almost derelict and leading to vandalism, neglect and loss of community. I tend to think it’s more green to buy various items in a high street rather than have them all separately wrapped, packaged and driven to our houses.

We need a real rethink of taxation, rent and business rates, and unless this happens then things will only get worse.

😂😂😂

@raisinseverywhere I agree. Buying your chilled water bottle on Amazon and then having it delivered from China isn't better than buying it from a local business.
It's the way they chat about making a coffee at home rather than going to a cafe, like they're the first to ever go without an expensive hot drink when they're out and about. As if my grandparents ever went to Costa!

Yes capitalism has to go but we don't have an alternative yet

Ahh yes - the luxury of deciding what everyone else is allowed to do or not - the ban everything you don't like philosophy - with the added luxury of not bothering to find an alternative...

mmm just so much wrong with that it is difficult to know where to start! Yes Capitalism has issues which need sorting out - but so does every other political system and other systems have shown continuously that they are repressive systems where small-minded people oppress others to validate their own beliefs... in theory Capitalism at least gives everyone an opportunity - what we need to do is to balance that opportunity more - not remove it...

Anything that offers gainful employment and helps fortify communities is good for me.

For example I don’t care for anything “craft” related. I don’t get it. But why would I celebrate the demise of a local craft shop when the staff offer useful advice and provide the opportunity to touch and experience the materials in person?

The answer is localism. The domination of the "High Street" for shopping was only a temporary blip. Go back to the 70s and the town centres were where people lived and worked, not just where they shopped.

Housing estates on the outskirts of towns had their own local shops, either on street corners or in small precincts. In the town centres, you had places of employment - not just shops, but also offices, banks, light industry, warehouses, breweries, print works, garages, cinemas/theatres, etc etc. Of course, town centres also had the "destination/specialist" shops which weren't in the suburbs.

In the 70/80s, the chain stores took over the High Streets - homes and businesses were demolished/converted for chain stores and thus the town centres became places where people went to shop, thus them being virtually deserted outside normal shopping hours.

Then came out of town retail parks etc and later came online shopping, both have which have decimated the town centre shops in lots of towns.

Rather than hark back to the temporary blip of retail domination, we need to re-purpose them to where people live and work. To an extent, university towns have already done this as lots of students live in town centres and so there are pubs, restaurants, cinemas and shops for them, but local councils need initiatives to get families living in town centres again and to do that, they need to concentrate the shops/cinemas etc in a small central part of town - i.e. to contract the town centres allowing the outer areas to be put back to housing.

The answer is localism and lots of other good stuff

well said - until we fundamentally look at how we live and work, we will have issues...

Eh? Its all going online, I can't remember the last time I bought clothes, books etc in a physical shop.

How is that linked to 'capitalism has to go'?

I think we have to accept that the town centre model isn't working anymore. I can't remember the last time I went to a town centre to buy something. But I went to a town centre for children's activity 3 days ago. People's purchasing habits have altered fundamentally and the high street hasn't caught up yet.

I get really furious at the cost of store rentals and there's loads of empty over priced shops near me.

I don't think rich landlords should be allowed to leave them empty - I want new laws that say they have to be rented, they have to reduce their rents until they're rented.

The lovely Greenwich market has 4 shops that are empty now - a wonderful vintage clothes shop gone - I assume because of the plus 50k rent. Ditto a new lovely tiny jewellers that would have had to find £1000 a week profit just to pay their rent.

The problem is people buying online. I get everything online now, never go to the town centre unless I am going to the cinema. It is deserted, lots of empty shops as the rentals are too high. People are changing how they shop in general really.

Primark is the only shop that ever seems really busy now and that is because you can't buy online (as far as I know).

I don't think rich landlords should be allowed to leave them empty

Many of these "rich landlords" are actually the local council themselves or pension funds. So ultimately both "owned" by normal people rather than rich fat-cats. Trouble with reducing rents is that it would cause the commercial property market to collapse as property values are based on rental values, so that would really beggar up the accounts of local councils and pension schemes. No easy answer to it - should never have been allowed to get out of control in the first place.

The problem is people buying online.

Often because the High Street shopping experience was poor. Congested town centres due to traffic calming, expensive car parks due to greedy local councils, then nothing but identikit chain stores, and finally the shops themselves having little stock and actually encouraging shoppers to order online (doh!).

For 3 years now, I've not been able to get Clarks shoes from the High Street shops near us - they either don't have the size, the colour or even the style we want - for decades before, we never had any problems but now they're drastically reduced the amount of stock held in their stores and are encouraging you to order and go back another day - no I'll just order online for home delivery - it's quicker and easier!

I like retail chains. I don't want to buy scabby fruit from local 'greengrocers' where the fruit is sat around catching flies.

Capitalism has to go - that's a new one.

Mainstream retail will catch up with the packaging thing once the economic pressure feeds upwards.

The way i see it both have plus points and downsides
Lots of retail stores means land that could be used for housing is wasted and those stores guzzle a lot of energy and produce so much waste so less of them the better BUT on the other hand 1 big warehouse like Amazon in the middle of nowhere still isn't the solution as they use delivery vans and trucks which then cause emissions to rise ....out of the two id still choose to use Amazon than the overpriced high street storesthat leave their lights on even when closed

It is far quicker, easier and convenient to order online.

The internet also has better returns policy. Shops only have to refund faulty goods, whereas if you changed your mind, or it didn't fit the person you were shopping for with online shopping, you can just return it.
I never shop in the high street if I can do it online.

the thing about online is getting the delivery of it is too big for the letterbox

People are spending just as much if not more, it’s just online now instead of in a store. I don’t shop in store anymore because I find it a hassle with children in tow. Why put myself through it when I can click a few buttons on my phone and have it delivered the following day?

I also hate chuggers.

i don't shop in the town nearest to me, it's full of coffee shops, sports wear and random clothles shops with 15 odd phone shops thrown in.
plus i can ususally buy the same stuff online that is cheaper even with the p&p.

the thing about online is getting the delivery of it is too big for the letterbox

There are more and more delivery/collection points with seemingly new ones every month or so. I can now collect my Amazon parcels at the local post office, or a nearby garage, or to an Amazon locker in any of our local retail parks or out of town supermarkets. For some other online purchases/returns, I can use the nearby Halfords or Matalan stores. We've just done the Uni open day visits, and every single one had Amazon lockers.