Kids Bedtime

[Thankgoodness1]

To be honest, it’s more of a AITOO (am I the only one?)

My kids cause me major anxiety and stress in the lead up to sleep.
They are 13 and 10 years and every effing night I can see they’re going to piss me about so I tell them calmly that they can go to bed a bit later than usual as long as they go quietly and sensibly. They always say they will. Then, when the time arrives they get up and immediately start mucking about and take forever to get into their room, they play, fight, play-fight, prank about, everything. They answer back (especially the older one), not in a rude blatant way but still. Tonight he switched the bathroom lights off whilst his brother was brushing his teeth, cue the younger one shouting and chasing him down the hall. When I discussed it with him, he denied ever switching off the light even though I saw him do it! They’re now arguing and fighting in their bedroom as I type.

I’m no push over. I’m actually stricter than most but they don’t give a shit and I’m at my wit’s end every night. I’m either crying or wanting to punch something really hard.
Oh and they get out of bed about 10 times each before they finally sleep. It shouldn’t take 2 hours for them to shut off.

Has anyone got any advice? They’re not toddlers and should know better.

What is their currency? Phones? Xbox?
Tell them that for every 5 minutes they mess about instead of going to bed that their phone/Xbox will be removed for x amount of time

What is the consequences for their pissing about every night?

I have no teenage experience but when my 6 year old pisses about at bedtime he goes to bed earlier the next night (to allow time for said pissing about and still be asleep on time). If he pisses about the next night he goes earlier again tomorrow and so on until it reaches 6pm (which it has a couple of times). It goes back 15 minutes each night he acts like a knob.

So instead of saying you can go to bed late if you’re good, say as a result of your behaving like toddlers last night, tonight’s bedtime will be 15 minutes earlier. If you go to bed sensibly it can be back to normal tomorrow night, if you mess around again it will be earlier again tomorrow.

I end up shouting up the stairs or going to their room and crying, almost begging for mercy. It’s been going on for at least 7 years and in the last few years it’s become so much worse. That’s well over 2,000 nights of bullshit.

What time are you asking them to go to bed? If it's too early they may not be tired so playing up to stay up.

We have 3 that can be similar. TBH only thing we found that works is to literally watch them like a hawk from the minute they go upstairs until they are actually in bed. Any minor misdemeanour, (i.e taking 2 steps towards your siblings bedroom instead of the bathroom) they get told to stop right then. If they can't all be in the bathroom at once, then 2 have to sit in the hallway and wait or use a different bathroom.
Sometime it takes 2 of us to watch all 3 or we get outnumbered!

Takes a week or 2 of being on them every night, then we can ease up until a few months later when they are back to their old tricks and we start again.

Or send them up one by one. 2nd one doesn't go up until 1st is in bed. But that does rely on the 1st not getting back out of bed and the 2nd not going in the room of the 1st.

Ah, I see yours share a room, our eldest 2 did for many years. If they pissed about in their room then the one doing most pissing about was brought out of the room and had to sit in the hallway in silence with dh or I until the other one was asleep. Or until they fell asleep on the hallway floor, then they were moved to bed.

Shouting up the stairs doesn't work. As my dh tells me, I have a tendency to shout at 'the house' rather than being direct to a particular child. 'The house' doesn't listen. Then I wonder why they ignore me.
i.e I shout from the downstairs hallway, 'can someone turn the tv off please'. No one does. I get cross. If I actually move my backside and ask to their face, 'Name, can you please turn the tv off' it's much harder for them to ignore me.

Switch off wifi/take devices/stop lifts/pocket money.
State the consequence calmly and then simply implement it. Don't shout or cry or give lectures just apply the sanction.and repeat.
It will take a little while but once they realise you will follow through they will think twice.
Remember you are in control. They have nothing without you so you hold all the power.

What are the consequences for their behaviour? At that age they needn't be immediate consequences. You misbehaved last night, so early to bed tonight/no Xbox today/no going out with friends/watching their favourite TV programme etc. Or. Until you can go to bed sensibly by X O'clock there will be no driving you around you will have to get up early, get the bus etc.

Does the 10 yr old not go up and off to sleep a lot earlier than the 13 yr old?

That’s the problem. Because I shout at them, they have got used to to me and now think it’s actually entertaining to wind me up and watch me go!

I need to just stay calm and give consequences instead. They have been going to bed late over the summer holidays, sometimes 11:00pm or later but it makes no difference.

Mine are similar ages but go to bed at different times. Youngest first and reads then the older one reads (at that point I turn the light off for the younger one). Do you stagger bedtimes?

There aren’t any consequences.
I have put them to bed early the following night or not let them watch their favourite programme as a punishment but it causes even more arguments. I don’t back down but writing this all down just makes me realise what a bad mum I am.

10 year old goes to bed first

13 year old goes an hour later

13 year old stays downstairs while 10 year old gets ready and goes to bed.

I don’t stagger bedtimes because it causes arguments

You're not a bad mum. You're just struggling with bedtime. It's not the end of the world. I would stagger bedtime by 30 mins, don't respond to arguments. Then think of a suitable consequence for disobeying. You just need to take control back. I think making bedtime earlier by 15 mins each time they misbehave is a good idea, they can earn the time back by behaving. Don't shout, you're losing control then. You'll need to set a bedtime, personally I'd say 9pm to be in bed and going to sleep, and tell them that this will be happening in the morning so that you're not springing it on them. If they argue just say "I'm not asking, it's not optional, that's when bedtime is. If you argue about it you will be going to bed 15 minutes earlier each time" then they know the score. You're the mum, you make the rules

Do you ever get so tired that you're past tired, you're wired and you can't get your head around sleeping? Children get that too. Whilst I am a fan of a rather late bedtime, studies have shown that consistent bedtimes and waking up times have all sorts of benefits to physical and mental health.

Agree that you need to let them know before bedtime comes what the sanctions are for messing around, make sure you don't lose your temper or get upset where they can see/hear you.

It's simple: you act like this, blah blah will be taken/witheld from you for x amount of time. Record it somewhere they can see, like a reverse star chart. Maybe also introduce a reward system, e.g. if you have a whole week of no sanctions we can go to that place you like for lunch, etc.

Maybe a very strict time deadline for each stage eg brushing teeth, reading, with a consequence /reward?
You are not a bad Mum you've just got stuck with their bad habit. It's knackering when they muck about after a long day.

In the end you're the boss.

Send the 10 year old up half an hour before the 13 year old. If he argues offer an hour early.

Or go up with them and supervise right from the start as though they were 3 and 6 not 10 and 13.

My younger two can be like this but they wouldn't argue if sent up seperately, just look sad... If I go up with them they behave well.

Perhaps they need to go earlier not later.

The alternative is just ignore and shrug off how long it takes (only during the holidays) and they'll probably mess around less after a while if they get no attention.

Either way you are still in control. Remind yourself of that. Don't make decisions based on avoiding them arguing with you - practice your "teacher voice" and "teacher stare".

You aren't a bad mum, but you're a push over and not in the least bit strict.
I have a 3 year gap with mine and we have had "it's not fair" but i explain the importance of sleep and the sleep needs at different ages so younger ones go first. Eldest one doesn't go up til youngest is asleep, and it seems to be that they're asleep in 10 mins using this method. If they have a later night they go at the same time but they just know whoever has been disruptive gets an earlier bedtime the next day.

You are having issues when you send them at the same time, so arguments when you send the 10 year old to bed first (I assume the 13 year old is not arguing about getting to stay up later) will just (hopefully) be temporary. Like a previous poster said, tell the 10 year old if he argues about it then it can be even earlier the next night. Right now they know they can walk all over you because you, time to set some firm rules and stick to them. You are not a bad mum, just an overwhelmed one it sounds like.

School nights 10 year old 8pm, 13 year old 9pm.
Weekends/Holidays an hour later. Tbh I don’t know what you are thinking regularly letting a ten year old stay up until 11pm.

Sorry for being unclear, I have let them stay up on a handful of occasions past 10pm and that’s only now during the summer holidays. During term time they both go up at 8pm.

OP it’s obviously having a big impact on your family so decide now what the consequence is going to be (I like earlier bedtime the next night because it fits the crime. ‘To get the right amount of sleep you need to be asleep/in bed by X, if you spend 15 minutes messing around you will be in bed 15 minutes too late, so tomorrow you’ll have to go earlier so you’re in bed on time’. It also only impacts one of them, unlike WiFi switch off. I would also stagger bedtimes.

If they go to bed properly this week they can stay up later at the weekend, but if they mess around they obviously need more practice so will have to keep normal bed time at the weekend.

Sit them down when they get up this morning and tell them what the plan is. Their opinion doesn't matter, they lost the right to an opinion on bedtime when they behaved like toddlers for weeks on end.

I have a 10yo and 13yo. The 10yo goes to bed an hour earlier - totally fair and accepted as he is 3 years younger.